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re: Would a high-speed rail system work in the US?
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:42 pm to Zappas Stache
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:42 pm to Zappas Stache
quote:
The leaders of the group are known right wingers...Glenn Addison,Ben Leman, Joe Fauth.
Well, it's well known that right wingers are very much against private enterprise.
0
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:43 pm to NOLALGD
Those buildings being torn down didn't cause the cores to degenerate. They were torn down because the cores had degenerated. THe movement to the suburbs was caused almost 100% by integration of public schools and the crimewave in inner cities caused by the explosion in drugs from the Great Society and Immigration Reform of the early/mid 60's. These events all happening in concert triggered an exodus, and developers were ready to accomodate them.
The groundwork for this was laid in the 50's by major auto manufacturers, bus companies, and tire manufacturers who conspired to buy up municipal commuter train lines and replace them with purposefully crappy bus lines to motivate working class people to purchase cars.
The groundwork for this was laid in the 50's by major auto manufacturers, bus companies, and tire manufacturers who conspired to buy up municipal commuter train lines and replace them with purposefully crappy bus lines to motivate working class people to purchase cars.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:46 pm to NolaTiger52
No, at least right now. I think it could work if the costs went down where it was cheaper than flying and the time made sense. I think the size and density of the United States make it unsustainable right now. Technology is always changing so who knows what the it will be like in the future.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:53 pm to Limitlesstigers
The cost that needs to come down to make it work is the cost of laying down new track or repurposing old track. Then, you could get track laid down between these areas that are close enough together to be workable (West Coast, Northeast, Texas Triangle. Once you have those, you start connecting cities in slightly less dense regions like the rust belt and major southern cities (Birmingham, Atlanta, Memphis, Nashville, Charlotte, Tampa, Miami) and expanding west coast service inland towards Vegas and Phoenix.
FInally, you start connecting these systems together.
However, until track becomes less expensive or we find a way to make it work better while still sharing rail lines with freight, it's still not more economical than flying and/or driving. If it were, private companies would be trying to do it.
FInally, you start connecting these systems together.
However, until track becomes less expensive or we find a way to make it work better while still sharing rail lines with freight, it's still not more economical than flying and/or driving. If it were, private companies would be trying to do it.
This post was edited on 5/5/20 at 1:54 pm
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:00 pm to kingbob
quote:
The groundwork for this was laid in the 50's by major auto manufacturers, bus companies, and tire manufacturers who conspired to buy up municipal commuter train lines and replace them with purposefully crappy bus lines to motivate working class people to purchase cars.
Yes, hence the development of American car culture. Cars were no longer just for luxury or for racing, but for the everyday American, including women!
I know we're off track from the main thread...but I agree high-speed national rail isn't the solution, its re-integrating regional commuter/light rail and re-thinking our current urban transit systems, then slowly expanding from there. I also agree construction cost for rail are out of control, its like double or triple the cost of European systems.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:03 pm to kingbob
Would love to see the economics of how this might work between Baton Rouge and NOLA. Could probably have stops for commuter parking in BR (maybe Seigen), Gonzales, LaPlace, Kenner (airport), and downtown NOLA.
Gotta be worth it to avoid going back and forth across the Bonnet Carre
Gotta be worth it to avoid going back and forth across the Bonnet Carre
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:07 pm to kingbob
quote:
5. It's just absolutely insane how much new track costs these days. I don't understand why it costs so damn much, but it is crazy expensive and much more than new interstate.
Well considering the areas of focus to place additional lines tend to be areas of higher density, there is a lack of actual real estate to add a 3rd or 4th line without significant reworking of the infrastructure (new bridges/tunnels over/under existing highways).
Additional restrictions are that the grade of a lot the tracks aren't designed to incorporate trains at higher speeds, since they are mostly built for freight. So what's the point of "high speed" rails if you can't get over 40mph on some of the existing track even if you added a 3rd line and disregard the freight capacity issue. So now you have an issue of building new line in a different area than already established lines, and the headaches to go along with that.
Finally, there are certainly NIMBY groups out there that are limiting the development of these lines, whether you agree or disagree with their premise. For instance, a major hiccup on the DC to RVA line was the small town of Ashland, VA with a population of 7k people. They have an amtrak station in the middle of their downtown. The choices they were given (and millions of dollars of studies later) was to either add a 3rd line through the city and at the station, which would require additional barricade and fencing disrupting the "quaint" aspects of the town.
OR Bypass the city entirely with additional tracks either under or around the city, which Ashland didn't want either, as it would likely make their existing Amtrak station be of less use. And the farmers/community doesn't want it either, as now they have new lines and fencing going through their property. (ETA: and you can argue, why do we have a amtrak station in a city pop of 7k, maybe 50-60k in the nearby suburbs)
They looked into using already established lines nearby, and they weren't suitable for grade (as mentioned above) resulting they would likely need to be additional lines of track($$$) elsewhere.
This post was edited on 5/5/20 at 2:11 pm
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:09 pm to xxTIMMYxx
Public transportation will never be that popular in the US compared to Europe and Asian because our attachment to personal automobiles, the stigma that public transportation is for poor/government dependent populations, and now the stigma of them being disease farms. Our cities weren’t built for public transport. They were built for vehicular navigation.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:09 pm to bilblues
quote:
Would love to see the economics of how this might work between Baton Rouge and NOLA. Could probably have stops for commuter parking in BR (maybe Seigen), Gonzales, LaPlace, Kenner (airport), and downtown NOLA.
When this debate was going full strength, the for the cost of the plan that was floated, it would be cheaper to pay for every commuter to uber. The reason was because 95% of the cost of the plan was for upgrades to the train tracks and rail crossings, and more than 70% of that was specifically for replacing the wooden trellis bridge over the spillway. This had to be done because that bridge is so dilapidated that the top speed limit for trains on that bridge is something like 10 mph.
It turned out the whole commuter rail plan was being pitched by the railroad as a way to trick the government into paying for upgrades to their tracks that they were too cheap to pay for themselves. It was ultimate karma when some of those tracks caught fire and the railroad had to replace them
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:25 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
I'd probably pay a fair amount to take the train somewhere in Florida. I mean, if I could hop a train to Tampa with the wife for 60 bucks and we could read and get a couple of beers instead of driving, I'd do it
Yeah, and that may very well be an appealing option for me too. It depends on the purpose of the trip and how much I'll need to get around once I'm there.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:29 pm to NolaTiger52
Only if its built, managed, and maintained by a private entity.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:36 pm to NolaTiger52
looking at the time scale, it doesn't look any faster than car travel. What am I really getting for these trillions of dollars?
Posted on 5/5/20 at 3:00 pm to Capital Cajun
quote:
Only if its built, managed, and maintained by a private entity.
So basically a train version of the Obamacare website?
Posted on 5/5/20 at 3:04 pm to UGATiger26
The wife and I priced amtrack tickets for our family of five in a sleeper car to go from south MS up to NYC. Thought it would be a fun vacation and something different but it takes days to make that trip not to mention about $3k in price. ETA I can only imagine what they will need to charge to pay for a high speed system.
This post was edited on 5/5/20 at 3:05 pm
Posted on 5/5/20 at 3:16 pm to bilblues
quote:
Would love to see the economics of how this might work between Baton Rouge and NOLA. Could probably have stops for commuter parking in BR (maybe Seigen), Gonzales, LaPlace, Kenner (airport), and downtown NOLA.
Gotta be worth it to avoid going back and forth across the Bonnet Carre
Is the demand great enough? I seriously fount that it is.
If it were private railroads would be popping up all over.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 3:16 pm to bayoudude
I made the mistake a number of years back of deciding to take the train back from NYC to NOLA after my flight got canceled, I wasn't in a hurry and it looked like it would be at least 12 hours before I could get on another flight. 32 hours after boarding the train in Newark, NJ I finally pulled into NOLA thanks to delays everywhere.
The only long train journey I want to go on again is the Trans Canada Rail.
The only long train journey I want to go on again is the Trans Canada Rail.
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