- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Wisconsin Hospital Replaces All Anesthesiologists with CRNAs
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:51 pm to magicman534
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:51 pm to magicman534
quote:
Bruh, all this clinical hours do not equal anesthesia training
But surely they get at least 1,000 hours of the same training CRNAs get, right? Again, if clinical hours is the difference between a NP and CRNA, why is there a caveat used when the same argument is applied to a physician? Are CRNA's "sitting in the stool" the first day of training?
0
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:52 pm to coondaddy21
Coon, I respect your training much more than that of an NP. Everyone should. It’s not even a question.
Your scope is practicing anesthesia under the supervision of a physician anesthesiologist. This is practicing to the full extent of your license. You’re doing it. And you should rightly be proud of it.
But that’s not what you were trained for. If you want to practice anesthesia independently you should go to medical school. And again I’ve presented evidence here that shows anesthesiologists have better dispositions and rescues than CRNAs, which is what I care about as a patient.
An incredibly sick and complicated population with poor health literacy. But yeah, let’s give them underqualified practitioners.
quote:
We are well trained and board certified to practice within the full scope of our training
Your scope is practicing anesthesia under the supervision of a physician anesthesiologist. This is practicing to the full extent of your license. You’re doing it. And you should rightly be proud of it.
quote:
not having a physician anesthesiologist at a facility doesn’t necessarily make the care substandard
But that’s not what you were trained for. If you want to practice anesthesia independently you should go to medical school. And again I’ve presented evidence here that shows anesthesiologists have better dispositions and rescues than CRNAs, which is what I care about as a patient.
quote:If I had a penny for the number of stories like this I’ve seen I could retire today a happy man.
Rural MD here in a private office. If I didn’t fix a lot of frick ups from a handful of bad rural NPs that are undersupervised on a weekly basis, I may agree with you. This just isn’t my experience at all.
An incredibly sick and complicated population with poor health literacy. But yeah, let’s give them underqualified practitioners.
This post was edited on 4/7/21 at 5:54 pm
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:55 pm to AMS
quote:
lmao if clinical hours is the threshold argument then lets let 4th year medical students independently practice. theyll have already gone through more clinical hours and more rigorous licensing examinations.
But they’re governed by a competent board that doesn’t want this because they know how bad it is for people.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:55 pm to tigercross
quote:
That's a far cry from the guy earlier in the thread who claimed that CRNAs and anesthesiologists had the same clinical training
That wasn’t me. The residents I’ve worked with have a broader training than CRNAs. For example, three year training but not in the OR the entire time. They may have several ICU rotation months, TEE months, regional anesthesia months. I’ve worked with some awesome resident and anesthesia docs and some complete dumbasses. Same as with CRNAs.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:55 pm to magicman534
quote:
Bruh, all this clinical hours do not equal anesthesia training. A medical student Holding a retractor in surgery or following around a resident in clinic isn’t learning how to do anesthesia. They sound great and they are important but not the same as sitting the stool.
yes a physician is also trained in many fields of medicine. this is the reason why physicians are m ore qualified. They are have more specialty training as well as more well rounded training. this helps to keep in mind the many different perspectives/aspects that a cRNA does not get trained in.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:58 pm to magicman534
quote:
Bruh, all this clinical hours do not equal anesthesia training. A medical student Holding a retractor in surgery or following around a resident in clinic isn’t learning how to do anesthesia. They sound great and they are important but not the same as sitting the stool.
I agree, they seem to equate these gazillion hours of training to better skill. Not to mention, all these hours are not 100% anesthesia hours. My specific training clinically was no different than the anesthesia residents I trained with at Vanderbilt. Sure, they may have gone an extra year but I was out practicing the next year, while they were in their 3rd year, still training. My first and second year out of school, I had a couple surgeons and one anesthesiologist request me to do their anesthetic. I was doing hearts, heads and major back cases.
The only advantage in training they have is they have multiple fellowship programs by which they can advance their training. Thankfully, we are starting to get those in the the CRNA education world.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:58 pm to cwil177
quote:
If I had a penny for the number of stories like this I’ve seen I could retire today a happy man.
An incredibly sick and complicated population with poor health literacy. But yeah, let’s give them underqualified practitioners.
The sad thing is that patient satisfaction is through the roof, because they hand out pills like candy. They’re adderalled and Xanaxed to high Heaven with an a1c of 12 and couldn’t be happier until their leg is falling off.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 6:03 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
This guy equated an NP with a DO,
Whoops I missed that. I trust DOs. I trained with them. They did my same residency and are just as qualified.
HopefulDoc, crazy4lsu, and AMS (and other docs/Med students in this thread), if you’re not already in physicians for patient protection I think y’all should consider joining. It’s the only organization worth a shite in this fight to stop scope creep from harming patients. Here is a link to get into the private Facebook group. You have to present your credentials to be verified however.
LINK
You will see cases that blow your mind. I had one just like this the other day. Sinus arrhythmia sent to the ER after urgent care NP told him he might be having a heart attack. 30yo with no risk factors. But yeah, midlevels totally “save money.”
Posted on 4/7/21 at 6:03 pm to cwil177
quote:
An incredibly sick and complicated population with poor health literacy. But yeah, let’s give them underqualified practitioners.
It seems one of the easiest ways would be to allow for more movement of doctors across specialties. I think the EM board certification process, with the ABEM itself born out of the AMFP in the early 1980s, attempted to amend its own certification process to allow for more cross-training, but that proposal failed.
If my understanding is correct, an FP in an urgent care environment could not work in an ER, generally, but an NP or PA could, with much less training. Is that an accurate description of the current situation?
Posted on 4/7/21 at 6:05 pm to coondaddy21
quote:
Easy to pick and choose the cases you want to make your point but I am sure there are plenty of other cases outlining malpractice by the anesthesiologist. Joan Rivers comes to mind. You peddle in fear tactics.
So the people with more training sometimes frick up and you think that this is a valid argument for independent practice for lesser trained individuals?
Fear tactics lol. I’m sorry that facts scare you.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 6:05 pm to cwil177
quote:
if you’re not already in physicians for patient protection I think y’all should consider joining. It’s the only organization worth a shite in this fight to stop scope creep from harming patients. Here is a link to get into the private Facebook group. You have to present your credentials to be verified however.
I'll definitely join soon.
The pictures you've posted in this thread from facebook have been utterly alarming.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 6:06 pm to Hopeful Doc
quote:
The sad thing is that patient satisfaction is through the roof, because they hand out pills like candy
Lol so do physicians.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 6:11 pm to Cs
Which one is more likely to make TikTok videos in the OR?
Posted on 4/7/21 at 6:12 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
If my understanding is correct, an FP in an urgent care environment could not work in an ER, generally, but an NP or PA could, with much less training. Is that an accurate description of the current situation
Entirely depends on the ER. In many cases it’s true, but I work with several FM docs at my shop. Some have an EM fellowship and some do not.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 6:12 pm to coondaddy21
quote:
My specific training clinically was no different than the anesthesia residents I trained with at Vanderbilt. Sure, they may have gone an extra year but I was out practicing the next year, while they were in their 3rd year, still training.
I thought anesthesiology programs were four years, with a PGY-1 transitional year? Am I not correct? Because the schedules I looked at Vandy suggest in their later years they get experience in plastic, endocrine, urological, and ENT, for example, while their first two years are generalized.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 6:13 pm to cwil177
quote:
Your scope is practicing anesthesia under the supervision of a physician anesthesiologist. This is practicing to the full extent of your license. You’re doing it. And you should rightly be proud of it.
You are not very knowledgeable about CRNA school, our scope of practice, nurse practice acts in every state, including Louisiana and our ability to practice. There are many CRNA only practices in Louisiana where no anesthesiologist is present. Louisiana Nurse practice acts state that I have to practice under the supervision of a physician. That can be a dentist, a surgeon, a podiatrist (although the medical board regulates their practice saying they can’t practice independently with a CRNA) or a physician anesthesiologist. It’s not exclusive to one. I personally can do all the same blocks you can and have done them. I can put in central lines and A-lines. Therefore my scope of practice allows me to do all those things. That’s what I mean by practicing to the full extent of my training. Now, each facility can regulate any type of practice to be more restrictive.
The place I am currently working had a 380 lb 4 hrs NPO dislocated shoulder come through the ER. I was able to put in an interscalene block and the ER doc reduced the dislocation without putting the patient at a greater risk of aspiration, due to using heavy sedation.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 6:14 pm to coondaddy21
quote:
My specific training clinically was no different than the anesthesia residents I trained with at Vanderbilt.
So do you think you could pass the MD anesthesiology board exams?
Posted on 4/7/21 at 6:14 pm to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
Lots of nurse practitioners can do the same job as a family physician
For the lay person, that may appear to be the case but there is a difference in quality of care between MD/DO and NP. That'd be like saying Mechanic A and Mechanic B are both equally competent because your car didn't burst into flames when you drove off.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 6:15 pm to Cs
In my recent experience I would trust the nurses, nurse anesthesists and nurse practitioners over most of the doctors i've been encountering who are lazy, out of touch, impossible to find or get in touch with and seemingly less competent than their subordinates who seems to be more competent and efficient bc they are actually in there Practicing Medicine.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 6:15 pm to cwil177
quote:
Entirely depends on the ER. In many cases it’s true, but I work with several FM docs at my shop. Some have an EM fellowship and some do not.
I never had a problem with NPs or PAs, but I also thought their education was more rigorous. It does seem patently idiotic that they get privileges that doctors do not, despite far more extensive training. Cross-training and allowing for more movement between specialties would go some way to helping improve the standard of care overall.
Page 16 of 32
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News