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Started By
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re: Wisconsin Hospital Replaces All Anesthesiologists with CRNAs
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:34 pm to cwil177
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:34 pm to cwil177
quote:
This is just disingenuous because I’ve already presented published studies in this thread about how CRNAs do worse when shite hits the fan and have worse dispositions post surgery.
Easy to pick and choose the cases you want to make your point but I am sure there are plenty of other cases outlining malpractice by the anesthesiologist. Joan Rivers comes to mind. You peddle in fear tactics.
This post was edited on 4/7/21 at 5:36 pm
2
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:34 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
By the time I get out of medical school, I will have 10x the clinical hours and a more rigorous education than an NP. When do you think I should be able to practice with the same degree of independence as an NP? An anesthesiologist after residency might have upwards of 10,000 clinical hours. What should be the effective difference between a CRNA and a anesthesiologist?
The clinical hours alone isn't a great argument, and I personally think we should more rigorously control and reorganize medical education in this country, as there is a lot of overlap due to peculiar American professional traditions, so that the responsibilities and purview are clear for everyone.
lmao if clinical hours is the threshold argument then lets let 4th year medical students independently practice. theyll have already gone through more clinical hours and more rigorous licensing examinations.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:34 pm to greenwave
quote:Nurses are pushing to be recognized as doctors when they obtain a PhD knowingly to confuse the public.
Lol again, majority do not
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:35 pm to crazy4lsu
Probably because some MDs “shite on them”
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:35 pm to Success
quote:Or we've seen it.
Y’all really do live in a dream world.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:36 pm to coondaddy21
quote:
Joan Rivers
Good point. An anesthesiologist killed Joan. And a cardiologist killed Michael.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:36 pm to Jake88
quote:
knowingly to confuse the public.
Lol got Em! Good grief paranoia much
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:37 pm to greenwave
quote:
Probably because some MDs “shite on them”
Again, the degree of competitiveness to get into medical school makes the distinction meaningless, in normative terms. I worked in a hospital for five years and I certainly didn't hear it from the physicians I worked with.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:37 pm to greenwave
Again, another anecdote, but I've experienced it.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:40 pm to crazy4lsu
Someone stated earlier older MDs arent too kind about it. I really don’t know, just know my friend that is a DO mentioned it carries a stigma
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:41 pm to AMS
quote:
lmao if clinical hours is the threshold argument then lets let 4th year medical students independently practice. theyll have already gone through more clinical hours and more rigorous licensing examinations.
The clinical hours argument is extremely bad, for the reasons you say. It seems that there needs to be better standardization, because it feels insane that I don't get the same degree of responsibility as a NP despite better more rigorous training and more clinical hours, by a wide margin.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:42 pm to greenwave
quote:
Lol so you really haven’t experienced this first hand
What? I’m a doctor and I work every day with ( some awesome and some not so great) midlevels who practice under my supervision. But I still see some miss routine shite like sepsis and DKA. It’s why I bird dog them the entire shift. What’s your experience for you to provide your input so willingly?
quote:
Would you rather have a midwife serving your poor area or nothing?
Studies in multiple countries, including rural environments, show that negligent care by poorly trained practitioners results in worse outcomes than no care at all. LINK
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:43 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Again, the degree of competitiveness to get into medical school makes the distinction meaningless, in normative terms. I worked in a hospital for five years and I certainly didn't hear it from the physicians I worked with.
add in the fact that they are literally governed by the same accrediting body nowadays. people that still buy into that weird stigma thing are probably retirement age or older.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:43 pm to magicman534
quote:
Clinicals mainly from 6-3pm M-Th and class on fridays. This was for 2 years continuously after 9 months of intense didactic work to begin the program.
So 2 years of 36 hrs/wk of clinical experience (not denigrating your training)? That's a far cry from the guy earlier in the thread who claimed that CRNAs and anesthesiologists had the same clinical training. For those keeping score at home -- that's ~3,700-3,800 clinical hours for a CRNA vs. 16,000+ post-graduate clinical hours for an anesthesiologist. Hmmmm...
Didn't Malcolm Gladwell write something about needing 10,000 hours of practice in a field to master it?
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:44 pm to cwil177
quote:
poorly trained
Key word there. Someone well trained can provide better service. Especially in midwifery.
This post was edited on 4/7/21 at 5:46 pm
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:45 pm to Cs
Does this correlate with a lower anesthesia bill when I get my hernun repaired?
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:47 pm to Jake88
quote:
Because you are paying for the real expertise in those 5 of 6 cases per year where the shite hits the fan and the potential malpractice payout is a few million or more when the nurse doesn't know what to do.
Why do you assume no one else but an anesthesiologist can handle a situation when shite hits the fan?
I had a case where the surgeon tore the iliac vein and artery for a patient with a Hemoglobin of 6. 5 min later I had the patient intubated and an A-line placed. 10 hrs later, 10 units of blood, 2 units of FFP and I extubated the patient on the table awake and alert, all by myself. Let me tell you, the shite hit the fan real quick. Like within 30 seconds of starting the procedure.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:47 pm to Jake88
quote:
You show up to an urgent care and that is exactly what will happen.
Not an exaggeration, but in the last three months, my local urgent care seems to think the appropriate way to treat patients is to give them a diagnosis and then have the patients call me for a treatment without being evaluated by me.
I’m not talking about them finding cancer, picking up new murmurs, or really anything interesting. I’m talking about the simple mundane stuff that I thought any jackass could treat competently.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 5:48 pm to tigercross
quote:
16,000+ post-graduate clinical hours for an anesthesiologist.
Bruh, all this clinical hours do not equal anesthesia training. A medical student Holding a retractor in surgery or following around a resident in clinic isn’t learning how to do anesthesia. They sound great and they are important but not the same as sitting the stool.
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