re: Will the ‘butts in seats’ mentality ever die?

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Do you know what the word arbitrary means?

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Don't deflect. Explain why you think it's arbitrary.

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I was about to pull into the office this morning at 8am, but realized that’s pretty early so I went to get breakfast. Got to the office at 8:40 and went to take a shite before going to my desk. My boss isn’t even here yet so I’ll probably leave early.

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Made breakfast for my kids and dropped them off at camp this morning. Read some Pelicans news while dicking around on here. Got in a swim while thinking about some work. Just arrived at my office and about to sketch an outline of those thoughts to send to a client.

I know that I am blessed and out of the ordinary to have the opportunity and ability to perform in my career to achieve both a great salary and work-life balance, but I could never work in a position that expects me to show up 6-5 everyday while some a-hole recorded my every fricking minute at the office unless I was making enough to retire by 40.

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What value is being derived from being there at 8AM other than thats when "you're supposed to be there"

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What's the workday? Is it 8-5 or is it "whenever you feel like coming in to whenever you feel like leaving"?

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I owe something to client by next Monday at 3 PM whether I come in from 6AM or 9AM it will still be in their inbox by 3 PM next Monday. However my boss expects me to be in my desk at 8AM every day. What value is being derived from being there at 8AM other than thats when "you're supposed to be there"

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The client calls you at work at ten after eight with an important question. You're unavailable to answer it. Your boss needs you for a time sensitive project that just came up. You're off getting donuts and coffee. Your coworker needs your input for an important 8:30 meeting. You're sitting in the drive-thru waiting on a McMuffin. What value are you bringing to the company?

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I can't decide if I'd trade extreme flexibility for set/fewer hours or not. I show up when I want, leave when I want, go run errands when I want and will stay at home if something comes up. But, I work an hour or two most nights and a few on the weekends. Take calls (usually not long) in the evenings/mornings/weekends, etc. I tell people, but only as a courtesy.

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It’s a balance for sure. I am lucky enough to have flexibility and lower hours in general. I typically know ahead of time when I have to kick it into overdrive and bust arse too. My wife has some flexibility, but her work requires much more hours regularly than mine so functionally her job is much more limited unless she wants to put in significant work on nights/weekends.

It would be very difficult for me to give up flexibility with my wife working more hours or if she had a very rigid schedule. There is so much stuff that comes up and I want to spend my weekends and evenings having fun with my children while they are young and fun and amazing.

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Why is it arbitrary? If works start at eight, it starts at eight. Not 8:15, not 9:12, not 10:05. Not at some random time of your own choosing. If you can't be to work at the designated time, find another job that allows you to come in when you please.

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Why does it start at 8? If a grocery store opens at 8:30, I can understand needing to be there for 8 so you can get ready to open the store at 8:30.

If you are in an engineering firm and will be sitting in an office all day with no meetings working on drawings, why does it need to start at 8?

Bossman makes the rules, then bossman complains when all his good people leave.

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The client calls you at work at ten after eight with an important question. You're unavailable to answer it.

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My client isn't calling me at 8:10, and if they do, it will be fine if I talk to them at 8:45. No life or death situations here in my profession.

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Your boss needs you for a time sensitive project that just came up. You're off getting donuts and coffee.

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There are no time-sensitive projects that can't be dealt with 30 min later.

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Your coworker needs your input for an important 8:30 meeting. You're sitting in the drive-thru waiting on a McMuffin

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My co-worker needs to have better time management skills. they should not be asking me for "important input" 30 min before a meeting starts.

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What value are you bringing to the company?

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When I save my clients $95,000 and I bill my client $20,000 for that and my client raves about us.

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The client calls you at work at ten after eight with an important question. You're unavailable to answer it.

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I am available. All calls forward to my cell. This includes evenings and weekends if a client needs something.

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Your boss needs you for a time sensitive project that just came up. You're off getting donuts and coffee.

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A call and/or email is sufficient. If its so sensitive that it needs to be completed in the next 10 minutes, then someone will handle that if I can't be immediately available. What if I'm in a meeting with another client? Does that project get canceled?

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Your coworker needs your input for an important 8:30 meeting

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If I'm scheduled to be in a meeting I'm there. If that coworker didn't have the foresight to include me, then they will wait.

All of this is to say that you don't have to be resistant to jobs that have more fluid hours. I can say that I can be more productive in a shorter amount of time than someone who is stuck at their desks 9-5 because I don't have to fill down time. The trade off is that I sometimes have to work from home. Just like last night where I was submitting client requests at 7:00 pm. Not everyone has a job where their presence is needed all day everyday. Some of us can go out into the field and manage multiple clients without "clocking in".

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What value is being derived from being there at 8AM other than thats when "you're supposed to be there"

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As a supervisor, there's actually a huge value in being able to estimate how much work someone is able to do in a standard work week because they are there for set hours.

If johnny is given 6 tasks and he is working OT and Lucy has 5 tasks and she leaves early every day, then the supevisor knows about how much work can be completed.

If people are working from home and flex hours, its very VERY difficult to determine a work load for the average position.

ETA: And for every method to monitor productivity there are methods for employees to embellish them.

It also helps if you have coworkers who all pull in the same direction. I know that I can count on them if we are grinding. They know that they can ask me for help if needed.