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Who would've won WW1 if the US didn't enter the war?
Posted on 2/17/23 at 9:57 pm
Posted on 2/17/23 at 9:57 pm
I go back and forth on this. Three possible outcomes:
1) The Allies win anyhow, as the Germans were scraping the bottom of their manpower by late 1917, plus Austria and Hungary were complete garbage by then.
2) The Germans, flush with the short-term increase in soldiers from the now defunct Eastern Front, finally collapse France in a final push some time in 1918, forcing England to sue for peace.
3) Germany, France and England eventually are all bled dry and/or bankrupted by 1920 and the war weary nations sign an armistice that essentially returns to the pre-war borders.
Your thoughts?
1) The Allies win anyhow, as the Germans were scraping the bottom of their manpower by late 1917, plus Austria and Hungary were complete garbage by then.
2) The Germans, flush with the short-term increase in soldiers from the now defunct Eastern Front, finally collapse France in a final push some time in 1918, forcing England to sue for peace.
3) Germany, France and England eventually are all bled dry and/or bankrupted by 1920 and the war weary nations sign an armistice that essentially returns to the pre-war borders.
Your thoughts?
21
Posted on 2/17/23 at 9:58 pm to ClientNumber9
frickin Belgians should have just let the Germans use their roads
Posted on 2/17/23 at 9:59 pm to ClientNumber9
Germany winning would have been beneficial for the world then and now.
Posted on 2/17/23 at 10:02 pm to GREENHEAD22
Yep
Hitler doesnt happen
Soviet Union likely doesnt happen
Hitler doesnt happen
Soviet Union likely doesnt happen
Posted on 2/17/23 at 10:11 pm to ClientNumber9
quote:
1) The Allies win anyhow, as the Germans were scraping the bottom of their manpower by late 1917, plus Austria and Hungary were complete garbage by then.
The Allies were seriously considering coming to the table. They were short on manpower as well.
quote:
2) The Germans, flush with the short-term increase in soldiers from the now defunct Eastern Front, finally collapse France in a final push some time in 1918, forcing England to sue for peace.
Very high likelihood.
quote:
3) Germany, France and England eventually are all bled dry and/or bankrupted by 1920 and the war weary nations sign an armistice that essentially returns to the pre-war borders
I think the most likely outcome. However, I don’t think it would’ve lasted till 1920. Maybe 1919. The casualty rate on the western front was so insane, there may have been open revolts in Paris, Berlin, and London. Hell, the French had veritable mutinies in entire units by 1917-18.
However, I believe the US was entering sooner or later regardless. We had to guarantee that we got our return on investment.
I believe Germany winning may have been the best outcome; but there are just as many variables in that outcome as the one that actually happened.
This post was edited on 2/17/23 at 10:15 pm
Posted on 2/17/23 at 10:21 pm to ClientNumber9
Bankers
Posted on 2/17/23 at 10:25 pm to ClientNumber9
A German victory, short or long, probably would have had better long term results worldwide.
In the Middle East for sure
In the Middle East for sure
Posted on 2/17/23 at 10:30 pm to grizzlylongcut
I didn’t know about the French revolts against WW1. What’s a good read on this?
Posted on 2/17/23 at 10:34 pm to CCT
First, have you listened to Blueprint for Armageddon?
Posted on 2/17/23 at 10:43 pm to grizzlylongcut
A German victory all but assures revolution in France, England, or both. The IRA already had its Bolshevik faction, so you may get a Red Ireland in this timeline too. You can spin any number of other scenarios from all that, few of them good.
Posted on 2/17/23 at 10:47 pm to ClientNumber9
I’d like to think the world might be a better place but human nature is still going to happen, so there’s a good chance it would be worse.
Posted on 2/17/23 at 10:50 pm to fr33manator
Without the German defeat in WWI, the Nazi party never becomes anything significant. It was fueled by defeat and the desire for revenge.
This post was edited on 2/17/23 at 10:51 pm
Posted on 2/17/23 at 11:05 pm to ClientNumber9
England’s navy effectively blockaded Germany to the extent that the populace was getting a lot thinner by 1918. Nothing the Germans could do about that even if they marched straight into Paris.
Posted on 2/17/23 at 11:14 pm to ClientNumber9
Rinse and repeat starting early 30’s
The Germans were a very war like nation in both cases that only needed a match to the tinder box. Different circumstances but similar conditions. They felt cornered but still wanted to rule the world because they were smarter than everyone else. I work closely with Germans and believe me they don’t like taking about WW2
The Germans were a very war like nation in both cases that only needed a match to the tinder box. Different circumstances but similar conditions. They felt cornered but still wanted to rule the world because they were smarter than everyone else. I work closely with Germans and believe me they don’t like taking about WW2
This post was edited on 2/17/23 at 11:19 pm
Posted on 2/17/23 at 11:15 pm to Breauxsif
quote:
Without the German defeat in WWI, the Nazi party never becomes anything significant. It was fueled by defeat and the desire for revenge.
But likely have some horrible shite in either France or Britain or both in its stead. Both countries had a pretty rough two decades after the war as it was. Now throw in a loss, humiliation, and loss of empire - that’s a stew that tastes like a red, black, or fascist Anglo-French axis to me.
There were just no good outcomes.
Posted on 2/17/23 at 11:43 pm to ClientNumber9
Commies were infiltrating Germany before the U.S. was significantly involved in any military capacity which wasn’t until summer of 1918. I’ve always been of the opinion that once the Schlieffen Plan didn’t pan out, the Germans had little chance of victory. Austria was done with or without German success in the western front. Let’s say that it does last for another 18 months or so and they sign less punitive treaties, odds are fascism still rises in Europe, just maybe somewhere besides Germany.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 2:14 am to ClientNumber9
There would have been an armistice and a better world.
It was almost over anyway, and we(Wilson, the POS) came in with our league of nations world government bullshite.
It was almost over anyway, and we(Wilson, the POS) came in with our league of nations world government bullshite.
This post was edited on 2/18/23 at 2:15 am
Posted on 2/18/23 at 2:17 am to alajones
quote:
fascism still rises in Europe, just maybe somewhere besides Germany.
*Looks around animatedly at 21st century corporatism, public private partnerships etc...
Yeah where might that pop up?
Posted on 2/18/23 at 3:06 am to ClientNumber9
3) I think the Spanish flu would have made them decide it's time to quit and go home.
Posted on 2/18/23 at 4:24 am to Cosmo
quote:
Hitler doesnt happen
Soviet Union likely doesnt happen
Which means no NATO, generation of global allies for America, no Special Relationship, and no kick start from depression to world superpower.
This post was edited on 2/18/23 at 4:26 am
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