re: Vinyl records expected to outsell CDs in 2019 for the first time since 1980s

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I just laugh when people say it provides more depth when it objectively cannot provide more depth than a CD due to the format. It's akin to saying 720p looks more detailed than 1080p - you can say it, but it simply cannot be true.

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True... but when I'm listening to CDs these days I'm in my truck driving around with road noise, ambient noise, etc.

When I'm listening to a record I'm in my living room with a good turntable, high quality receiver, and high quality speakers. And I don't even have close to the top of the line.

So, by virtue of that, the vinyl is going to sound better, even though the CD format absolutely has more depth.

It's sort of like hooking a blu-ray player up to an old tube TV vs. watching a regular DVD on a 65" plasma.

My ears are so damaged from years of playing live, I really cant tell the difference anymore anyways.

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First, the biggest difference you heard was between a planer speaker (specifically a ribbon that works as a di-pole) and a point source transducer-based speaker the 801s are monopole. When placed properly a planar speaker can have a huge soundstage, excellent imaging and great dynamics. The other big issue was the actual recordings you were listening to.

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While I do concur on the difference between the speakers, the point I was attempting to make was given one of the best set-ups of that time the vinyl represenation of the music was head and shoulders better than the CD representation.
As for source material there were several choices but I did most of my listening to Dire Straights Brothers In Arms, both Master recording LP and DDD recorded disk, which actually should have given a slight edge to the CD.

Of course a planar is better than most at presenting depth to a recording, however in this "shootout" it was clearly no contest to my ears.

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One thing though if the vinyl is just using digital masters. It won't sound any better than a cd.

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Agree 100%.

I think CDs, by and large, were/are pretty good. I was still DJ'ing when CDs started coming into the studio and they were fine. That said, radio stations are not known for having audiophile-level equipment. They lean more to the cheap and robust side.

When I think of "digital" music, I'm talking about sat radio and portable devices. They all sound flat to my ears. I have heard FLAC is better, I just haven't listened to it yet.

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This is true. Analog does have more depth than digital. Digital cuts the wave off like steps.
The smooth analog signal matches the recorded sound wave better than the steps of a digital recording.
One thing though if the vinyl is just using digital masters. It won't sound any better than a cd.

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So then it isn't the magic piece of plastic imbuing some mystical warmth.... it's the recording chain before and up though the mastering process.

As for the "steps" of digital, do you see the "steps" of film? It's 24 discrete steps per second. And the "steps" of the digital signal is converted back to analog at some point. If you have crap D to A, you are not going to get the best playback. Kind of like having a crap phonograph or needle.

I personally don't know any engineer who prefers vinyl over digital playback. They *may* prefer recording to tape because of the compression tape can impart on the signal. But again, that's all way before the music ever sees a cutting lathe.

Since there is so much misinformation in this thread, I will just add this...








...Digital, nor vinyl, can hold candle to these 2 machines playing a master tape—I have about 30 master tapes as a reference, and play them on both these machines.

Top pic—(TEAC X-2000M, half-track, 15ips, balanced, IEC reference tape deck)

Bottom pic —(Tascam BR-20, half track, 15ips, balanced, IEC reference tape deck)

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(TEAC X-2000M, half-track, 15ips, balanced, IEC reference tape deck)

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I wish I'd bought one of those instead of my
Sony RDAT and that damned Marantz cdr615.

I could've had the x2000m and the BR20.

HOw do you like the dbx type 1?
Where are you sourcing these masters?

Do you listen to both of these through your Focals?

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How do you like the dbx type 1?

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I don’t use it...running at 15ips, it’s not needed. The tape I use is new, and the same tape that most current studios use (ATR Magnetics, 1mill, 3600’—the studios use 1.5 mill, 2500’, but that is just because they will use that same tape over and over, and the thicker tape will not wear or stretch under constant studio use, but there is no sonic difference between 1 and 1.5 mill).

I usually record live Phish shows or transfer old Dead shows to a 3600’ ATR Magnetics 1mill tape (48 minutes of recording, one direction only, as they are 2-track, not 4).
I do that because I like to run it with the lights dimmed while Trey and Jerry work their magic—a total cool factor from a mechanical and sonic standpoint!!

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Where are you sourcing these masters?

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There is a guy here in NOLA that has about 3000 master tapes!! I get some from him, as well as a couple of other contacts (not in Louisiana) who are into this niche. You would be surprised at just what is available if you know where to look. All the credentials about the transfer from 2”, 30ips (Studer deck) to 1/4” (usually an Otari 5050 III is used) is contained with the tape. They are done in real time. They average about $250-$400 per album.

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Do you listen to these through your Focals?

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I still have the Focal Utopias, however, I replaced the speakers in the main rig with a much larger one, made by Audio Solutions in Lithuania. You can see them in the rig with one of the Focals off to the side, Here in the big vinyl/equipment thread


Tape is a labor of love—everything on the deck must be calibrated precisely on a regular basis, from head azimuth, bias, transport tension, roller condition and tension, head wear, head spacing...and then there are the mods—custom outboard head preamps, board mods, wiring mods, pulley/spring mods, bearings, and on and on.

Remember, the last commercial deck, the TASCAM BR-20, ceased production in 2004, and it was alone for almost a decade (most others stopped production in the early ‘90’s), so most reel decks are 25-45 years old and need a complete overhaul (about $1200) before using for master tapes. The TEAC X-2000M pictured above was built in 1985 (34 years old now!).

And not all decks can be used for master tape. In order to properly playback master tape, a deck needs to have 15ips capability, 10.5” reel capability, IEC equalization curve built in, and 2-track heads (often called “half-track”).


It is not for the audio greenhorn, as there is a big learning curve to getting everything right, and it can get expensive...BUT, when all is right, it’s very hard to beat.

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The misinformation is people thinking vinyl being more representative of the master tape than digital.

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Vinyl is certainly more representative of the original recording than most anything streamed or on a portable, (non-CD) digital device.

ETA: Assuming it is not some crappy "remaster".

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I don’t use it...running at 15ips, it’s not needed. The tape I use is new, and the same tape that most current studios use (ATR Magnetics, 1mill, 3600’—the studios use 1.5 mill, 2500’, but that is just because they will use that same tape over and over, and the thicker tape will not wear or stretch under constant studio use, but there is no sonic difference between 1 and 1.5 mill).

I usually record live Phish shows or transfer old Dead shows to a 3600’ ATR Magnetics 1mill tape (48 minutes of recording, one direction only, as they are 2-track, not 4).
I do that because I like to run it with the lights dimmed while Trey and Jerry work their magic—a total cool factor from a mechanical and sonic standpoint!!

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I don’t know what any of this means