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Started By
Message
re: US Navy's 7th fleet commander has been fired
Posted on 8/23/17 at 6:19 am to member12
Posted on 8/23/17 at 6:19 am to member12
Container ships should not be able to intentionally ram a US warship. Period. This is either gross neglect...on more than one occasion, or some foreign entity is hacking our systems. I just don't see any other possibilities.
1
Posted on 8/23/17 at 6:25 am to jimmy the leg
It's gross negligence and I have a strong feeling it's a deep rooted cultural problem in the navy.
Posted on 8/23/17 at 6:26 am to Deactived
quote:
saw a good article on the difference between merchant mariner training and navy mariner training. a long read but an interesting perspective LINK /
Replying so people go click on this article. It's a good explanation of why these things are happening
Not exactly. No matter what the mission - commercial or military - or size of a vessel, there are two basic requirements for every crew member on every ship: crew safety and vessel integrity. Every order, instruction and procedure starts and finishes with these two primary duties. The evidence so far in this incident points to complacency due to a failure of basic leadership duties at all levels.
And, in true 'Wag the Dog' fashion, I see the Pentagon Spin Doctors are busy -
"Citing a U.S. Navy official, CNN reported late Monday that John S. McCain had suffered a “steering failure” prior to the collision. Earlier in the day CNN reported that “there were indications the destroyer experienced a loss of steering right before the collision, but steering had been regained afterward,” according to a second Navy source."
Looks like the fleet incompetence has spread to the DoD. That would be very funny if it were not for the fact that ten crew died.
Posted on 8/23/17 at 7:42 am to Coeur du Tigre
quote:
Not exactly. No matter what the mission - commercial or military - or size of a vessel, there are two basic requirements for every crew member on every ship: crew safety and vessel integrity. Every order, instruction and procedure starts and finishes with these two primary duties. The evidence so far in this incident points to complacency due to a failure of basic leadership duties at all levels
The linked article can be interpreted exactly this way.
I agree 100% on the complacency issue. This goes all the way from the biggest navy ships to the smallest boats you can be on.
Posted on 8/23/17 at 7:46 am to Coeur du Tigre
What would you like them to say?
Posted on 8/23/17 at 7:50 am to Tyga Woods
quote:
I have a feeling that the truth is being withheld. My guess is that some country (probably China) has found a way to hack our systems and cause these problems. It's the only reason that makes sense to me.
I highly doubt that. That would be an act of war.
Posted on 8/23/17 at 8:05 am to DeafJam73
Hacking our system is a not an excuse. You think the military isn't prepared for this? That's why we have actual people driving and real people using their eyes. The fact is the ships these navy boats hit were not small, there's no freaking excuse. Once a ship gets within 500 yards or whatever, any navy vessel should have it on close watch constantly. It's not like a fighter jet where you close a distance instantly, it's still the navy shite takes some time.
There's clearly crap going on that's distracting the crew. That's on the officers and on the admirals for allowing it to happen.
There's clearly crap going on that's distracting the crew. That's on the officers and on the admirals for allowing it to happen.
Posted on 8/23/17 at 8:07 am to GeauxxxTigers23
Can you any of you navy guys give me an answer on the sounding the alarm question.
Posted on 8/23/17 at 8:14 am to ThatMakesSense
quote:The article accurately focuses on the differences in training and on-board responsibilities between commercial shipping and naval officers.
What would you like them to say?
However I believe the root cause of this incident does not originate in these differences. Its origin is at the most basic level of all shipboard operations - crew safety and vessel integrity. If you can't get that right, nothing else matters.
Posted on 8/23/17 at 8:45 am to Tyga Woods
quote:
I have a feeling that the truth is being withheld. My guess is that some country (probably China) has found a way to hack our systems and cause these problems. It's the only reason that makes sense to me.
China hacked the basic competency of our sailors such that they could not avoid huge slow moving commercial vessels while at sea. That is what makes sense to you?
We need better discipline, which starts with leadership.
Posted on 8/23/17 at 8:46 am to Coeur du Tigre
quote:
the most basic level of all shipboard operations - crew safety and vessel integrity. If you can't get that right, nothing else matters.
Absolutely.
Posted on 8/23/17 at 8:46 am to GREENHEAD22
Yes, the collision alarm should have been sounded. Maybe the Officer of the Deck or Captain thought they might be able to avoid the collision and chose not too sound it, but it definitely should have been sounded.
Posted on 8/23/17 at 9:05 am to shiner17
quote:
Maybe the Officer of the Deck or Captain thought they might be able to avoid the collision and chose not too sound it, but it definitely should have been sounded.
Maybe they are out there routinely bouncing off other ships and thought they could get away with another, but this time people died.
we need a complete investigation (collisions, allisions, near-misses)...... WTF is going on out there.
Posted on 8/23/17 at 10:37 am to Devil_doge
My son is enlisted in the Navy and leaving for bootcamp in a few months. Needless to say these incidents freak me out. My condolences go out to the families of the brave sailors that lost their lives in these preventable accidents.
Posted on 8/23/17 at 8:09 pm to GREENHEAD22
quote:
Cursive is faster than standard fyi.
Typing is faster than both - and more legible.
Posted on 8/23/17 at 8:32 pm to Devil_doge
quote:
This is stupid. Nobody fires the CEO of McDonalds because a few employees frick up the ice cream machine.
quote:
Your argument is stupid, a frick up at McDonalds doesn't cost millions of taxpayer dollars and lives of US service members.
Anothdr reason his argument is stupid: If the CEO of McDonalds had repeated accidents under his watch that caused 17 deaths, millions in damages, massive PR challenges, and took viral restaurants (ships) out of services for months, I'd say yes, he likely would get fired.
Posted on 8/23/17 at 8:52 pm to Adam4848
The son of an 82nd Airborne paratrooper, Vice Adm. Joseph Aucoin graduated from North Carolina State University with a Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering. He is an Arthur S. Moreau Scholar and holds master's degrees in public administration from Harvard University and in national security studies and strategic affairs from the Naval War College. He is a MIT Seminar XXI fellow and a graduate of the Navy Fighter Weapons School, Top Gun.
As a career naval flight officer, Aucoin served in five fighter squadrons and commanded Fighter Squadron 41, the "Black Aces." The book "Black Aces High" recounts the success of his people in operations over Iraq and Kosovo during his command tour while embarked in USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71). He commanded Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5 forward deployed to Japan and embarked aboard USS Kitty Hawk (CV 63), and Carrier Strike Group (CSG 3), homeported in Bremerton, Washington, and embarked aboard USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74).
Ashore, he has served in numerous assignments on the Navy and Joint Staffs. Flag assignments include deputy director, air warfare, Office of the Chief of Naval Operations ([OPNAV] N88B) and director, programming division (OPNAV N80). Prior to assuming responsibilities as commander, U.S. 7th Fleet in September 2015, Aucoin served as deputy chief of naval operations for warfare systems (OPNAV N9) from May 2013, in which he was responsible for the integration of manpower, training, sustainment, modernization, research and development, and procurement of the Navy's warfare systems.
Aucoin has flown more than 150 combat missions in support of joint operations in Iraq, Kuwait, Bosnia and Kosovo. He accumulated over 4,700 flight hours and more than 1,300 carrier-arrested landings. His personal awards include the Distinguished Service Medal, the Silver Star, the Legion of Merit, the Distinguished Flying Cross with "V" and the Bronze Star.
As a career naval flight officer, Aucoin served in five fighter squadrons and commanded Fighter Squadron 41, the "Black Aces." The book "Black Aces High" recounts the success of his people in operations over Iraq and Kosovo during his command tour while embarked in USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71). He commanded Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5 forward deployed to Japan and embarked aboard USS Kitty Hawk (CV 63), and Carrier Strike Group (CSG 3), homeported in Bremerton, Washington, and embarked aboard USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74).
Ashore, he has served in numerous assignments on the Navy and Joint Staffs. Flag assignments include deputy director, air warfare, Office of the Chief of Naval Operations ([OPNAV] N88B) and director, programming division (OPNAV N80). Prior to assuming responsibilities as commander, U.S. 7th Fleet in September 2015, Aucoin served as deputy chief of naval operations for warfare systems (OPNAV N9) from May 2013, in which he was responsible for the integration of manpower, training, sustainment, modernization, research and development, and procurement of the Navy's warfare systems.
Aucoin has flown more than 150 combat missions in support of joint operations in Iraq, Kuwait, Bosnia and Kosovo. He accumulated over 4,700 flight hours and more than 1,300 carrier-arrested landings. His personal awards include the Distinguished Service Medal, the Silver Star, the Legion of Merit, the Distinguished Flying Cross with "V" and the Bronze Star.
Posted on 8/23/17 at 9:08 pm to Devil_doge
My former Commanding Officer ( then CDR, now VADM) Phil Sawyer now taking over. Crazy for a submarine guy.
Posted on 8/24/17 at 4:54 am to BRIllini07
quote:Giving the command of a surface fleet to a submarine guy is called 'sending a message'. VADM Sawyer will be told to pack a two-bladed axe and go into that Fleet swinging.
My former Commanding Officer ( then CDR, now VADM) Phil Sawyer now taking over. Crazy for a submarine guy.
Posted on 8/24/17 at 6:18 am to Coeur du Tigre
quote:
Giving the command of a surface fleet to a submarine guy is called 'sending a message'.
Sawyer was already set to take command of the 7th in September. He is just moving that up by 3 weeks.
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