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Posted on 9/2/25 at 11:45 am to Cosmo
The universe is a dark forest. Every civilization is an armed hunter stalking through the trees like a ghost, gently pushing aside branches that block the path and trying to tread without sound. Even breathing is done with care. The hunter has to be careful, because everywhere in the forest are stealthy hunters like him. If he finds other life—another hunter, an angel or a demon, a delicate infant or a tottering old man, a fairy or a demigod—there’s only one thing he can do: open fire and eliminate them. In this forest, hell is other people. An eternal threat that any life that exposes its own existence will be swiftly wiped out. This is the picture of cosmic civilization. It’s the explanation for the Fermi Paradox.
To understand the Dark Forest Theory, one must understand that
-The goal of all civilizations is self preservation
-All civilizations expand
-There are finite resources in the universe
-Civilizations will have difficulty communicating with each other because of vast distances and differences in modes of communication
-When a species discovers a new civilization, they can never be sure of that civilization's motives
-The only conclusion that the species can come to is that the new civilization poses an existential threat, and must be destroyed
-Knowing this to be true, civilizations hide themselves.
To understand the Dark Forest Theory, one must understand that
-The goal of all civilizations is self preservation
-All civilizations expand
-There are finite resources in the universe
-Civilizations will have difficulty communicating with each other because of vast distances and differences in modes of communication
-When a species discovers a new civilization, they can never be sure of that civilization's motives
-The only conclusion that the species can come to is that the new civilization poses an existential threat, and must be destroyed
-Knowing this to be true, civilizations hide themselves.
Posted on 9/2/25 at 11:48 am to Proximo
quote:
They’re mostly too far away, not that they’re deliberately not sending messages out.
We likely won’t ever leave our solar system before we all get wiped out
This.
It’s not that it’s a dark forest, it’s that it’s an immense forest relative to what we can do.
We’re an ant on a branch of an oak and it would take us too much time to travel to an adjacent tree.
Posted on 9/2/25 at 11:59 am to Cosmo
Unless they can warp space to travel faster than light, I’m not worried about it. Distances too great. And space is expanding faster than light as well. Unless of course if they have been colonizing for billions of years and we are their next stop. Well, then we are definitely screwed if they want to wipe us out.
Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:12 pm to Cosmo
quote:
but they dont broadcast their existence
And for humanity's first broadcast into space we went with Hitler.
Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:20 pm to Proximo
quote:
Basically, that was the event that allowed the mammals to flourish and led to our becoming the apex species on the planet.
That falls into bucket of “intelligent design” vs that’s the only way it could happen since we’re now here to observe it. Similar to thinking that if you made that one different decision you never meet your future wife and your kids would not exist. Was that intelligent design or was that a cooincidence that led to a specific outcome? We’ll never know without more information.
The moon being the perfect size in the perfect place to foster a liveable planet is another. There are probably countless worlds that this wasn’t the case so there aren’t life forms there to observe this cooincidence. We can…so it had to be that way.
This post was edited on 9/2/25 at 12:23 pm
Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:23 pm to Proximo
quote:
There’s no telling how many advanced species are out there that we’ll never see
And who will never see us.
Radio broadcasts have been around for less than 150 years. There is not much within 150 light years of Earth.
Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:24 pm to Cosmo
quote:
So we are really dumb for sending out probes and radio waves trying to talk to aliens.
Why? If there is alien life more advanced than us, what makes you think there isn't alien life that isn't as advanced as us? There have been 3 or 4 planets identified that are similar to earth like Kepler-452 which is 60% larger than Earth and over 1000 light years away.
And the problem with humans isn't necessarily being dumb, we are just too emotional.
Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:27 pm to Cosmo
I'm a firm believer in the Fermi Paradox. Essentially, there are so many filters that preclude interstellar travel (time, distance, advance civilizations kill themselves off before they come close to advancing to the necessary level) that it probably never happens.
It's cool to discuss things like the predator in the woods/Dark Forest theories, but they are both based on an instinctive predator/prey relationship and thousands of generations of interactions. That wouldn't really apply to alien contact.
It's cool to discuss things like the predator in the woods/Dark Forest theories, but they are both based on an instinctive predator/prey relationship and thousands of generations of interactions. That wouldn't really apply to alien contact.
This post was edited on 9/2/25 at 12:30 pm
Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:33 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:
In other words, would it really be possible to reach our stage of civilization and actually keep yourself in a "dark forest" during the entire time of your progress there and beyond?
Depends if they catch you slippin' or not.
Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:35 pm to Proximo
quote:
Event Horizon
Great movie.
Hasn't aged super well, but still tells a killer story around some nice Sci Fi.
Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:36 pm to Proximo
yes
The issue isn’t even that there no aliens within hailing distance, it’s that there’s nothing with hailing distance. We cannot travel to where they are probably for the same reasons they can’t travel to us. Pretty simple explanation…the answer is distance
The issue isn’t even that there no aliens within hailing distance, it’s that there’s nothing with hailing distance. We cannot travel to where they are probably for the same reasons they can’t travel to us. Pretty simple explanation…the answer is distance
Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:38 pm to Proximo
quote:
There is evidence that the location it landed on the Yucatan just so happened to have the right materials to cause the massive blackout of the sun.
It's limestone IIRC. The whole Yucatan is riddled with cenotes and underground water from the impact.
Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:39 pm to Cosmo
I’m not worried about aliens messing with us
If they can reach us, they don’t need any of our resources
If they can reach us, they don’t need any of our resources
Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:41 pm to cgrand
quote:
The issue isn’t even that there no aliens within hailing distance, it’s that there’s nothing with hailing distance. We cannot travel to where they are probably for the same reasons they can’t travel to us. Pretty simple explanation…the answer is distance
That's true as it stands right now.
It is possible there are entities that have advanced beyond the constraints we face in our dimension.
It's some fun stuff to think about and get lost in at times. Puff puff pass.
Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:41 pm to SquatchDawg
very well said. Multiple causes can have similar outcomes. Life is nothing if not adaptable
Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:44 pm to SLCGumpFB25
quote:anything is possible however the evidence we have now (a tiny fraction of course) indicates that it’s also possible that interstellar travel by living things is not possible
It is possible there are entities that have advanced beyond the constraints we face in our dimension.
Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:44 pm to SquatchDawg
quote:
That falls into bucket of “intelligent design” vs that’s the only way it could happen since we’re now here to observe it. Similar to thinking that if you made that one different decision you never meet your future wife and your kids would not exist. Was that intelligent design or was that a cooincidence that led to a specific outcome? We’ll never know without more information.
The moon being the perfect size in the perfect place to foster a liveable planet is another. There are probably countless worlds that this wasn’t the case so there aren’t life forms there to observe this cooincidence. We can…so it had to be that way.
I'm in the intelligent design camp. Now who are what that was is beyond me. If there are infinite universes and an unknowable amount of events that had to happen in order for humanity to evolve, the odds still have to be staggering.
Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:45 pm to cgrand
quote:
anything is possible however the evidence we have now (a tiny fraction of course) indicates that it’s also possible that interstellar travel by living things is not possible
All I know is I don't want to be that first guy going through the wormhole to find out. I don't think it's a bunch of bookshelves in a little girl's room.
Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:49 pm to Cosmo
I saw something on tv that said more than likely it’s other humans in the universe running into the same problem we running into concerning not be able to communicate over vast distances
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