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Started By
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re: Tennessee and Georgia announce reopening to begin next week (Georgia this Friday)
Posted on 4/20/20 at 4:20 pm to SloaneRanger
Posted on 4/20/20 at 4:20 pm to SloaneRanger
quote:
Sweden has endured pain but it is going to emerge in the best shape. It had the wisdom to take the long term view.
It pains me to see conservatives promoting analogies to nordic countries after years and years of telling liberals why those analogies fail...considering many of the same distinguishing characteristics apply to both arguments.
1
Posted on 4/20/20 at 4:23 pm to dawgfan24348
quote:
Nobody wants this to go on forever stop making up narratives
You have Democratic governors who are pushing fear and doctoring numbers to try to get more federal money.
Posted on 4/20/20 at 4:24 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
I'm asking the question of whether that negligible/modest/meaningful (I don't know the answer) revenue is going to make any difference and whether there are going to be more virus losses than economic gains.
We have to try, if only to slow the bleeding and provide a starting point for how we're going to start the process of recovery. It's not like a restart in 2 weeks will be substantially more revenue-producing.
This is not going to be a quick economic fix (could seriously be years), but every week we wait that process gets a lot longer than a week. Jobs disappear in recession a lot faster than they are created in recovery.
quote:
The counterpoint for people on your side of this, I'd think, is "well if business is going to suck so much then there probably won't be much transmission going on."
Then the harm is overstated.
Posted on 4/20/20 at 4:25 pm to SloaneRanger
im not a fan of trump but he had no choice but to shut things down considering what was happening in Italy etc
he is also opening things up as quickly (and safely) as possible with the phases plan
a lot of sectors of the economy are going to be fricked for the rest of the year, but idk if he could have really chosen another path
he is also opening things up as quickly (and safely) as possible with the phases plan
a lot of sectors of the economy are going to be fricked for the rest of the year, but idk if he could have really chosen another path
Posted on 4/20/20 at 4:27 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Bring this charade to an end and let's fight this thing like Sweden.
11% death rates?
Posted on 4/20/20 at 4:27 pm to Crowknowsbest
I'll be honest, it won't make a difference to me and I'm not really one to advocate strongly why a barber can't go back to work.
But I don't think we're in exceedingly good shape, I don't think our population is among the most likely to be voluntarily responsible upon reopening, and I don't think what is reopening (and under those conditions) seems particularly likely to avoid or stem the harms you're talking about.
I'd feel quite differently if we'd kicked arse in testing, were well into the flattened portion of the curve, etc. It would make me confident this was a reason-based decision rather than a "I want to be seen as a red state governor being bold" decision.
But I don't think we're in exceedingly good shape, I don't think our population is among the most likely to be voluntarily responsible upon reopening, and I don't think what is reopening (and under those conditions) seems particularly likely to avoid or stem the harms you're talking about.
I'd feel quite differently if we'd kicked arse in testing, were well into the flattened portion of the curve, etc. It would make me confident this was a reason-based decision rather than a "I want to be seen as a red state governor being bold" decision.
Posted on 4/20/20 at 4:29 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
It pains me to see conservatives promoting analogies to nordic countries after years and years of telling liberals why those analogies fail...considering many of the same distinguishing characteristics apply to both arguments.
We are talking about the spread of a virus and the best way to deal with it. It has nothing to do with the demographics of a nordic country. Look at the thread of the data that is just in from LA County. This virus is extremely widespread and extremely minor to the majority of people. And I am not at all making light of the fact that it is very serious to some. But Sweden had the right approach for the long term. Hiding in your home is not going to solve the problem.
Posted on 4/20/20 at 4:29 pm to cardswinagain
quote:
Stop lying. If it hurts Trump's chances in November, yes they do.
I really don't think that's true. For a small percentage of the extremists you read on Twitter, sure. There's always going to be those on both sides.
But for a large majority of Americans, this is so much bigger than giving a damn about Trump one way or another.
Posted on 4/20/20 at 4:30 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
South Carolina begins reopening tomorrow. Retail businesses and beaches being open will resume.
This post was edited on 4/20/20 at 4:47 pm
Posted on 4/20/20 at 4:34 pm to dawgfan24348
quote:
The point is to make sure we don't overrun the hospitals.
Maybe all the hospital employees could go back to work.
Posted on 4/20/20 at 4:35 pm to SloaneRanger
quote:
We are talking about the spread of a virus and the best way to deal with it. It has nothing to do with the demographics of a nordic country. Look at the thread of the data that is just in from LA County. This virus is extremely widespread and extremely minor to the majority of people. And I am not at all making light of the fact that it is very serious to some. But Sweden had the right approach for the long term. Hiding in your home is not going to solve the problem.
Of course it does. A country where most look alike, think alike, worship alike, etc. and pull in the same direction for similar reasons is a huge advantage in getting compliance on something like this.
Posted on 4/20/20 at 4:39 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
So that leaves two options: we either sit in our homes for another year or we go outside and face the music.
This is what it comes down to. We have to collectively just sack up and get through it. Sitting at home with everything closed is doing more harm than good in the grand scheme of things
Posted on 4/20/20 at 4:41 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
I was actually coming to post this about GA. Good move, Kemp. We have this seemingly under control right now. The hospitals are not being terribly overrun. Allow some people to get back to work, and give people a sense of hope that this indeed is not the end of the world.
Not to mention, I would wager a good bit that with just how many people are in a big sense of panic, a lot of people are going to still choose to stay in their houses for a lot longer. Meaning I don't think we will see a large spike in new cases, plus I can get my haircut in a barbershop that isnt super crowded
Not to mention, I would wager a good bit that with just how many people are in a big sense of panic, a lot of people are going to still choose to stay in their houses for a lot longer. Meaning I don't think we will see a large spike in new cases, plus I can get my haircut in a barbershop that isnt super crowded
Posted on 4/20/20 at 4:45 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
But I don't think we're in exceedingly good shape,
We won't be for a year
quote:
I don't think our population is among the most likely to be voluntarily responsible upon reopening,
Definitely not
quote:
I don't think what is reopening (and under those conditions) seems particularly likely to avoid or stem the harms you're talking about.
At the very least, it may convince some businesses that there's a light at the end of the tunnel, and they may just decide to not let go of their workforce.
quote:
It would make me confident this was a reason-based decision rather than a "I want to be seen as a red state governor being bold" decision.
None of these decisions were reason-based. They were based on fear and a lack of scientific information, neither of which are going away soon.
This post was edited on 4/20/20 at 4:46 pm
Posted on 4/20/20 at 4:51 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
it's going to get worse before it gets better no matter what we do. In either path we take, people are going to die.
This isnt true. Trend line for daily deaths and daily new cases is pointing down, but not significantly. What's going to happen is these states that open up are going to have flares, and then those people are ultimately going to re-infect the states that stayed under SIP. So SIP measures in most states are ultimately going to be useless if some states go fully open.
Posted on 4/20/20 at 4:53 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
The Tennessee letter attached in the OP says the "businesses will open according to specific guidance that we will provide in accordance with state and medical experts in both medicine and business."
I don't see how anybody can take issue with that. Let them open.
I don't see how anybody can take issue with that. Let them open.
Posted on 4/20/20 at 4:54 pm to Chucktown_Badger
Chi town, you are starting to miss the point
The ENTIRE REASON FOR LOCKDOWNS is to make sure the hospitals are not overwhelmed
It has nothing to do with actual infection.
If states aren’t going to see overwhelmed hospitals, I don’t see the issue
The ENTIRE REASON FOR LOCKDOWNS is to make sure the hospitals are not overwhelmed
It has nothing to do with actual infection.
If states aren’t going to see overwhelmed hospitals, I don’t see the issue
Posted on 4/20/20 at 4:55 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
I'll be honest with you, it's going to get worse before it gets better no matter what we do. In either path we take, people are going to die.
But this has been getting better. That's why there are talks of opening up to begin with
Posted on 4/20/20 at 4:59 pm to SloaneRanger
quote:
Sweden has endured pain but it is going to emerge in the best shape. It had the wisdom to take the long term view.
I think you may want to wait a bit before claming Sweden is going to be in the best shape. Their death rate is higher than the US and their charts are not indicating any kind of decline in the infection or death numbers (while the US ones appear to be trending a decline).
See for yourself - Sweden
Posted on 4/20/20 at 5:07 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
The ENTIRE REASON FOR LOCKDOWNS is to make sure the hospitals are not overwhelmed
It has nothing to do with actual infection.
These two are inextricably linked.
If we don't have the testing/vaccine/treatment, and we reopen, we will very quickly be right back to where we were in early March with the "we have to slow the spread, socially distance, stay away from the elderly and predisposed, etc". This thing obviously spreads easily and quickly, so it could explode on us if we do things too quickly. Wouldn't take much to undo all the progress made thus far. Hopefully warmer temps help, hopefully people still maintain good hygiene and spacing, etc though.
Disclaimer: I have not read the full plan of each of the states that are planning to "reopen", my point was more around some states reopening more quickly than others and at that point everyone might as well start to reopen..unless states are gonna lock down borders.
Disclaimer #2: I don't claim to know the timeline on how long SIP should last or what should open first...but the "frick it...some people are going to die, open the flood gates" argument sounds absurd to me (See my point above about a massive explosion in the infection rates and then all of this economic ruin being for nothing.)
This post was edited on 4/20/20 at 5:11 pm
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