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Started By
Message
re: Sensor damaged by a foreign object on Ethiopian Airlines 737 MAX triggered fatal crash
Posted on 4/4/19 at 6:06 am to RollTide1987
Posted on 4/4/19 at 6:06 am to RollTide1987
Foreign object, eh? Did someone check Paul Orndorff’s tights?
0
Posted on 4/4/19 at 6:07 am to RollTide1987
quote:
suffered a damaged angle-of-attack sensor upon takeoff from a bird or foreign object
Bull
fricking
shite
Posted on 4/4/19 at 6:16 am to MikeBRLA
Nah, with vehicle to vehicle and vehicle to infrastructure communications, autonomous vehicles are going to be way safer. It’s going to be a lot more foolproof if something breaks on an autonomous vehicle when it can get feedback from the surrounding environment that it’s doing something wrong. It would be like if the plane could’ve constantly communicated with the clouds if what it was doing was making sense. Or with the ground as it got closer. Or if there were thousands of other planes in the air near it, that would give it direction and feedback on its movements.
Posted on 4/4/19 at 6:18 am to MikeBRLA
100% autonomous cars don’t have to perform perfectly, they just have to perform better than the very low bar of human drivers.
Posted on 4/4/19 at 6:19 am to Muthsera
quote:
Step 1 to surviving a plane crash: Avoid flying on any airline whose name makes you ask "Who the frick would fly there?"
They were flying a brand new plane.
Posted on 4/4/19 at 6:48 am to MikeBRLA
quote:
Not to derail the thread, but this is exactly why I don’t see 100% autonomous cars ever being a thing. An alert driver/pilot must be there to take over control should the technology fail.
If a 100 million dollar plane can’t work autonomously, then it will never be economically possible in a car that is affordable to the masses.
This is just incredibly ignorant
Posted on 4/4/19 at 6:54 am to Jack Bauers HnK
quote:
they just have to perform better than the very low bar of human drivers.
Put another way, go to WalMart at 2:00 in the morning and observe your fellow drivers. If a computer is more capable than those guys (who will also be on their phone), that is considered success.
Posted on 4/4/19 at 7:00 am to RollTide1987
I wonder if aircraft still had a flight engineer if stuff like this would be less frequent. The pilots worry about keeping the pointy end up and the engineer worries about systems and configuration and making sure the pilots have everything they need to keep the pointy end up.
The way this article is reading, they disabled the stabilizer itself, meaning zero control. When the turned it back on, MCAS was still active and went back to town on the re-engaged stabilizer, crashing the plane. It seems that MCAS is what needs to be disengaged, allowing the pilot to control the stabilizer without influence.
Also, for the life of me, I cannot fathom why sensors and automatic controls that can directly move control surfaces aren't required to have 2 out of 3 voting redundancy. One instrument is required to fly, but two instruments must agree for action. If there is no agreement, the pilot is notified and given full control.
2 out of 3 voting is standard in life-critical systems all over the planet. The additional weight, apparently, cannot be tolerated in commercial aviation.
The way this article is reading, they disabled the stabilizer itself, meaning zero control. When the turned it back on, MCAS was still active and went back to town on the re-engaged stabilizer, crashing the plane. It seems that MCAS is what needs to be disengaged, allowing the pilot to control the stabilizer without influence.
Also, for the life of me, I cannot fathom why sensors and automatic controls that can directly move control surfaces aren't required to have 2 out of 3 voting redundancy. One instrument is required to fly, but two instruments must agree for action. If there is no agreement, the pilot is notified and given full control.
2 out of 3 voting is standard in life-critical systems all over the planet. The additional weight, apparently, cannot be tolerated in commercial aviation.
Posted on 4/4/19 at 7:27 am to RollTide1987
(no message)
This post was edited on 9/26/20 at 12:31 am
Posted on 4/4/19 at 7:31 am to Shiftyplus1
quote:
Ha. Knew it was something else.
Are you retarded?
Posted on 4/4/19 at 7:36 am to GeeOH
Ethiopian officials denying the strike, wth. THe newest Ive seen is that the pilots did NOT follow the procedure and turned off the MCAS before pulling the nose up. So that threw off their procedures.
THIS is going to be a political nightmare.
THIS is going to be a political nightmare.
Posted on 4/4/19 at 8:11 am to Wtodd
This plane should have had redundancy. I’m no expert but why would you have one AoA sensor in the front of the plane with no backup. Of course something would happen to it eventually.
Posted on 4/4/19 at 8:14 am to baldona
quote:
Ethiopian officials denying the strike, wth. THe newest Ive seen is that the pilots did NOT follow the procedure and turned off the MCAS before pulling the nose up. So that threw off their procedures.
THIS is going to be a political nightmare.
No it wont. This lies squarely on Boeing s plate and their lack of common sense. To think that there is an "upgrade" available that warns when the sensors are malfunctioning. and its not on every plane...which, by the esy, can fly itself into the ground upon a malfunctioning sensor.
Plus, they saw no need to train the pilots further?
It doesnt matter if it hit a bird or not, it malfunctioned AFTER that.
ANY judge will easiky conclude that Boeing engineers understood the possibility of those sensors being hit.
Posted on 4/4/19 at 8:16 am to RollTide1987
Posted on 4/4/19 at 8:51 am to danfraz
One thing for sure. Lawyers fixing to bill several thousands of hours related to this issue.
Posted on 4/4/19 at 9:08 am to RollTide1987
So, at best, Boeing put a software system on a plane, that probably wasn't needed had they just gotten the plane recertified, that had a critical fail point with no redundancy that came standard.
At worse, this is all BS but Boeing just offered the airline / country a bunch of planes at discounted prices essentially buying them off.
At worse, this is all BS but Boeing just offered the airline / country a bunch of planes at discounted prices essentially buying them off.
Posted on 4/4/19 at 9:15 am to Jack Bauers HnK
quote:
100% autonomous cars don’t have to perform perfectly, they just have to perform better than the very low bar of human drivers.
We can accept, painfully, when people make a mistake and someone dies.
We will not forgive a machine that makes a mistake and kills someone.
Posted on 4/4/19 at 9:37 am to RollTide1987
seems like their should be a redundancy so that this one sensor can't cause a crash.
Posted on 4/4/19 at 9:39 am to RummelTiger
quote:
Not that I’m doubting the story, but I’m always fascinated at how they can determine parts of a plane were damaged prior to violently slamming into the earth.
The black box records everything that goes on with the plane mechanically and I believe records conversation in the cockpit as well. They can review it and determine what went wrong to cause the malfunction.
Modern cars also have a similar box that they use to determine fault in insurance claims of major accidents. It will tell you if anything malfunctioned, how fast you were going, etc.
Posted on 4/4/19 at 9:55 am to Muthsera
quote:are you retarded?
Step 1 to surviving a plane crash: Avoid flying on any airline whose name makes you ask "Who the frick would fly there?"
quote:
Ethiopian Airlines
Case in point.
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