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re: Not basing laws on morality
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:48 am to extremetigerfanatic
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:48 am to extremetigerfanatic
quote:
So you are adding in qualifiers to your statement now?
No. You are.
Self defense is reactionary, the violence against you has already been initiated. You just don't get it.
0
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:48 am to BayouBengal23
The Taliban agrees with this post and issued a statement. "That's all we've been saying."
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:49 am to extremetigerfanatic
Applying individual morality will always be a part of our laws, even for laws that society at large agrees with (murder, rape, theft, etc)
Our definition of murder and the justification of murders has evolved over time. Same for rape and theft.
I don't think anyone is saying that applying communal morality is wrong, as we have always done it to some degree, its the degree in which we apply it that is the issue most of the time.
Our definition of murder and the justification of murders has evolved over time. Same for rape and theft.
I don't think anyone is saying that applying communal morality is wrong, as we have always done it to some degree, its the degree in which we apply it that is the issue most of the time.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:50 am to Bullfrog
quote:
Sound law is based on ownership of property
Like another person? Can that be property?
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:51 am to Salmon
quote:
I don't think anyone is saying that applying communal morality is wrong, as we have always done it to some degree, its the degree in which we apply it that is the issue most of the time.
I agree.
But the issues are being conflated by people that don’t see the difference.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:54 am to BayouBengal23
quote:
What about harming an unborn baby? At what age is it acceptable and how do you justify the belief?
I'm pro life. IDK how somebody can justify it. Nowadays if you end up pregnant (and weren't raped, abused, etc) it is by negligence. I think as pro lifers we need to prioritize making it easier to adopt. It's a damn nightmare.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:58 am to andwesway
quote:The simple answer is the "masses". The prevailing, majority thought.
Who decides what's right or wrong?
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:58 am to BayouBengal23
Welcome to the messy real world.
People's contexts in life, their perspectives, how they make meaning out of life, various external (religion, family structure, economics) and internal influences (dna, fears, etc.) all impact a person's point of view.
We tend to want to reduce all of this reality into numbers to understand things and make universal claims, like laws for example. What makes sense for some is the antithesis for others.
I do believe in having absolute reference points, that by itself, is a subjective and relative exercise. Start with some agreed to principles as the basic building blocks and go from there. Keep the whole, not the parts, in mind in the design. Execute laws of, for, and with the people they serve.
That is my good will PSA of the year. Good night.
People's contexts in life, their perspectives, how they make meaning out of life, various external (religion, family structure, economics) and internal influences (dna, fears, etc.) all impact a person's point of view.
We tend to want to reduce all of this reality into numbers to understand things and make universal claims, like laws for example. What makes sense for some is the antithesis for others.
I do believe in having absolute reference points, that by itself, is a subjective and relative exercise. Start with some agreed to principles as the basic building blocks and go from there. Keep the whole, not the parts, in mind in the design. Execute laws of, for, and with the people they serve.
That is my good will PSA of the year. Good night.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 9:59 am to WildManGoose
quote:
The simple answer is the "masses". The prevailing, majority thought.
Like sharia law? Where when a man rapes a woman you put the woman to death?
Majority thought in Iran.
If there is no God or some overriding arbiter of right and wrong, then they are right?
This post was edited on 9/16/21 at 10:02 am
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:00 am to Odysseus32
quote:
The world and universe as a whole is incredibly indifferent about murder, rape, abortion, and anything else you find abhorrent.
Until "science" finds a gene for them
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:01 am to BayouBengal23
You have a link for your source? Keep in mind a fringe group trying to advocate something is completely different than a legislative body passing laws.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:03 am to Jebadeb
quote:
Morality is subjective.
Correct. Based on the population, demographics, culture, etc morals are different everywhere. Morality is not solely based upon religion or one concept. Pretty easy argument. Now if we want to say "religion has the best stance on morality" we can certainly argue this about 50 pages from now. Because religion itself is so diverse..even in American Christianity
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:04 am to AUCE05
[quote]You have a link for your source? Keep in mind a fringe group trying to advocate something is completely different than a legislative body passing laws.[/quote
Well I mean. In 1975 the people advocating Sharia law in Iran were fringe.
Well I mean. In 1975 the people advocating Sharia law in Iran were fringe.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:07 am to extremetigerfanatic
quote:
If there is no God or some overriding arbiter of right and wrong, then they are right?
for them, at this moment, yes, their morality is "right"
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:07 am to Loup
quote:So in your view abortion is acceptable in the case of rape?
I'm pro life. IDK how somebody can justify it. Nowadays if you end up pregnant (and weren't raped, abused, etc) it is by negligence.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:12 am to BayouBengal23
We’ve got to base laws on something. Morality seems to be a decent start. I realize that morality is different among different people. But there has to be some collective level of morality that most of us can agree on. If we don’t set some guidelines it’ll be a slippery slope and people would be trying to do things like make it legal to marry a family member or worse.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:18 am to carhartt
quote:Do you think that maybe government shouldn't be involved in marriage at all?
If we don’t set some guidelines it’ll be a slippery slope and people would be trying to do things like make it legal to marry a family member or worse.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:22 am to Odysseus32
quote:
No, they aren't.
There is no morality. Never has been, never will be.
There is how you personally feel about things and that's it. The world and universe as a whole is incredibly indifferent about murder, rape, abortion, and anything else you find abhorrent.
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:22 am to extremetigerfanatic
quote:No. Another person is not your property because they own themselves.
Like another person? Can that be property?
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:23 am to extremetigerfanatic
quote:If we are being honest, yes.
Like sharia law? Where when a man rapes a woman you put the woman to death?
Majority thought in Iran.
If there is no God or some overriding arbiter of right and wrong, then they are right?
That is the general outcome of mob rule.
The mob makes the rules.
If the majority mob wants the capabilities to legally assault certain groups, it becomes a legal situation if the government kowtows to it.
It has happened many, many times throughout history, including in the USA.
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