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re: Not basing laws on morality

Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:24 am to
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28703 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:24 am to
quote:

No. Another person is not your property because they own themselves.
No co-ownership in your view?

What about animals? Can we own animals or do they own themselves?
Posted by carhartt
Member since Feb 2013
7671 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:26 am to
quote:

Do you think that maybe government shouldn't be involved in marriage at all?


I’m not sure it’s their place to tell someone who they can marry. But they’ll always want to know if anything for monetary and inheritance reasons.
Posted by Scruffy
Kansas City
Member since Jul 2011
72004 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:27 am to
quote:


No. Another person is not your property because they own themselves.
If the mob rules that you can own another human, the act, sadly, becomes socially moral.

It is the nature and flaw of mob mentality.
Posted by Weekend Warrior79
Member since Aug 2014
16285 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:30 am to
quote:

What about harming an unborn baby? At what age is it acceptable and how do you justify the belief?

Once there is a beating heart, it is no longer an issue of morality. It is a living being. Hell, once the child is at 24 weeks, it has a higher than 50% chance of survival as a periviable birth (and there are stories of survival at 20/22 weeks)

Prior to the heartbeat, I still believe the child is a living being; but also acknowledge that there is enough I do not understand and can see where many may feel there are some legitimate arguments.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
259879 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:30 am to
quote:

Can we own animals


The non human ones, yes.

That was easy.
Posted by Galactic Inquisitor
An Incredibly Distant Star
Member since Dec 2013
15169 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:31 am to
quote:

America is going down a very scary, slippery slope. Where is the morality line?



It sounds like you'd rather slide the other direction to something like the Taliban is looking to create.
Posted by hogminer
Bella Vista, AR.
Member since Apr 2010
9625 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:33 am to
quote:

The world and universe as a whole is incredibly indifferent about murder, rape, abortion, and anything else you find abhorrent.


You would be wrong.
Posted by mmmmmbeeer
ATL
Member since Nov 2014
7419 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:34 am to
You can go as basic as go to Wikipedia to understand the basis of the American legal system.

And how you just going to pass around "pedophilia is trying to be passed right now" without thinking twice about how illegitimate of a claim that is? Like, "oh, let me just toss out that pedophilia is being legalized because someone at church mentioned it". I mean, ffs people, use some common sense when you reading bullshite propaganda or talking to people who are spreading the bullshite propaganda that they read.
Posted by Salmon
On the trails
Member since Feb 2008
83517 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:35 am to
quote:

The non human ones, yes.

That was easy.


I've often wondered if we would ever come to a point that animal "slavery" would become a legit topic and/or discussion

*I assume its already out there to some degree

which one would be first? animal slavery or robot slavery?

Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
259879 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:36 am to
quote:


I've often wondered if we would ever come to a point that animal "slavery" would become a legit topic and/or discussion


It already is. Just not widespread, yet. But yeah, there are movements out there. LINK
Posted by Salmon
On the trails
Member since Feb 2008
83517 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:39 am to
quote:

calls for an end to factory farming, an end to the abuse animals suffer in " entertainment" and an end to vivisection and any other means where animals are seen as utilities or a commodity to be exploited.


hell I don't even mean this, I mean like basic pet ownership

Posted by michael corleone
baton rouge
Member since Jun 2005
5805 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:40 am to
All criminal law as are based upon morality. This has been true since the practice of codification began. Murder, Rape,Assault,Theft have always been “immoral” and codified as criminal acts accordingly.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28703 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:41 am to
quote:

I’m not sure it’s their place to tell someone who they can marry. But they’ll always want to know if anything for monetary and inheritance reasons.
So as far as the government is concerned it should just be a contract between two individuals, right? Who the individuals are shouldn't matter.
Posted by Bullfrog
Institutionalized but Unevaluated
Member since Jul 2010
56151 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:43 am to
quote:

No co-ownership in your view?
Co-ownership of tangible property can certainly be contractually divided.

Volitional beings own themselves.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28703 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:43 am to
quote:

quote:

Can we own animals
The non human ones, yes.

That was easy.
It was supposed to be an easy question. Unfortunately it still doesn't answer why a human can't be property.

What if they submit to it?
Posted by Odysseus32
Member since Dec 2009
7294 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:43 am to
Well, no. But sure, you can think that.
Posted by Bullfrog
Institutionalized but Unevaluated
Member since Jul 2010
56151 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:44 am to
quote:

If the mob rules that you can own another human, the act, sadly, becomes socially moral.
What the mob or democracy defines as a crime is not a clean overlap to what is a true crime.
Posted by WildManGoose
Member since Nov 2005
4568 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:45 am to
quote:

then they are right?
They believe they are morally right, and even honoring the commands of God.

That just supports my point that morals and the laws that flow from them are determined by majority opinion.
Posted by Mike da Tigah
Bravo Romeo Lima Alpha
Member since Feb 2005
58857 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:46 am to
It’s just man trying to do away with the consequences. Nothing new. It’s the steady quest of man since Cane and Abel. Do away with God and do away with the consequences, neither of which actually go away.





Posted by carhartt
Member since Feb 2013
7671 posts
Posted on 9/16/21 at 10:47 am to
quote:

So as far as the government is concerned it should just be a contract between two individuals, right? Who the individuals are shouldn't matter.


Correct, as long as it’s 2 non-related, consenting adults.
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