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re: No matter what direction we point a telescope, we always look toward the Big Bang - why?

Posted on 7/28/22 at 5:10 pm to
Posted by Dawgfanman
Member since Jun 2015
26316 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 5:10 pm to
quote:

This is something that you guys say because you feel attacked. Science doesn't concern itself with religious topics. The vast majority of, let's say geneticists, don't think about how it is going to impact Buddhism when they explore the human genome. It just is. They follow the evidence and postulate based on it. That's it.


I didn’t say scientists use science to disprove the existence of God, I said Atheists, the vast majority of whom aren’t scientists and who don’t have a firm grasp of the science they are trying to use in such a way. Science can not disprove the existence or prove the existence of God..but that doesn’t stop those whose religion is atheism from trying.
Posted by Free888
Member since Oct 2019
3281 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 5:16 pm to
quote:

What is the Webb Telescope going to see that makes Big Bang unworkable.


The farthest galaxy that Webb has already identified is causing some issues with the Big Bang theory. I don’t have the specifics, but apparently the wavelength of the galaxy is too advanced for what it should be relative to the current theory.

Also, there’s an active movement within the international science community refusing to acknowledge and publish any papers questioning the theory, even if written by legitimate scientists. Guess they’re adopting the Covid scientific method.
Posted by MountainTiger
The foot of Mt. Belzoni
Member since Dec 2008
14958 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 5:17 pm to
quote:

We don't because, the best we know, it is expanding at the speed of light.

Mostly what you say is correct but I have to correct you on this point. Space is not expanding at the speed of light. It's expanding at about 45 miles per megaparsec (3.26 million light years).
Posted by brass2mouth
NOLA
Member since Jul 2007
20634 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 5:19 pm to
quote:

you are looking at light that is billions of years old.
that is so damn trippy
Posted by ThatTahoeOverThere
Member since Nov 2021
4978 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 5:46 pm to
quote:

No matter what direction we point a telescope, we always look toward the Big Bang - why?


Cuz that mudderfricker big that’s why
Posted by I20goon
about 7mi down a dirt road
Member since Aug 2013
19829 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 6:09 pm to
quote:

ThatTahoeOverThere
quote:

Cuz that mudderfricker big that’s why
you win.

that was great.
Posted by WaWaWeeWa
Member since Oct 2015
15714 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 6:21 pm to
If all matter was once a singular point then technically anything you look at was once part of that single point at the Big Bang

If that’s what they are trying to say it’s not as mind blowing as you would think
Posted by DownshiftAndFloorIt
Here
Member since Jan 2011
72098 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 6:28 pm to
quote:

all matter was once a singular point then technically anything you look at was once part of that single point at the Big Bang


This is my problem with big bang.

The universe just always was and always is. Its turtles all the way down man.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
29105 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 6:35 pm to
quote:

The law(s) of Entropy say the Big Bang is impossible.


1. No they don't.
2. The laws of physics didn't exist until space banged into existence.
Posted by Turf Taint
New Orleans
Member since Jun 2021
6010 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 6:57 pm to
I never quite got over one of the Big Bang's fundamental premises, that the distance between all galaxies in the universe was 0 at one point in time.

Say what? All the smartest theoretical mathmeticians in the world can say so, but does that pass the facial smirk test? I cannot get 0 distance between my wife and I! And not for lack of trying on my part.

Beginning and end thinking is man-made as is the theoretical math that proves it.

Too much evidence of continuous cycles in life's design (eg, cardio-pulmonary, water, menstruation, seasons, tax planning (kidding) + infinite time-space curvature = time to question Big Bang theory and any telescope looking for it.

Posted by DarthRebel
Tier Five is Alive
Member since Feb 2013
25828 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 7:10 pm to
quote:

Over massive distances space can actually expand faster than the speed of light, which is why there is a point all around us which, if we traveled at the speed of light for eternity, we'd never be able to reach (that point or anything beyond it).


We will never fly at the speed of light, get close to it or even really try.

Warp is a thing and one day in a distant future we will figure that out. We will be able to travel to those galaxies, when we figure out the math of where they are now and not billions of years ago.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
29105 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 8:10 pm to
quote:

The farthest galaxy that Webb has already identified is causing some issues with the Big Bang theory. I don’t have the specifics

quote:

Also, there’s an active movement within the international science community refusing to acknowledge and publish any papers questioning the theory, even if written by legitimate scientists. Guess they’re adopting the Covid scientific method.

Posted by Tiger Chemist
Member since Nov 2009
3158 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 8:13 pm to
If you are in the middle of a circle, ellipse, or expanding sphere and rotate you field of vision; what is always on the perimeter/horizon?
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
29105 posts
Posted on 7/28/22 at 8:15 pm to
quote:

I never quite got over one of the Big Bang's fundamental premises, that the distance between all galaxies in the universe was 0 at one point in time.
When the distance was zero, there weren't galaxies or stars. There weren't even atoms. Kind of just a lot of energy.
quote:

Say what? All the smartest theoretical mathmeticians in the world can say so, but does that pass the facial smirk test?
I think that's far from the weirdest thing about the universe.




I still think odds are good that our universe is a simulation.
Posted by ThinePreparedAni
In a sea of cognitive dissonance
Member since Mar 2013
11315 posts
Posted on 7/29/22 at 10:58 am to
quote:

'Modern science is based on the principle: Give us one free miracle and we'll explain the rest.' The one free miracle is the appearance of all the mass and energy in the universe and all the laws that govern it in a single instant from nothing."


Indulge me while I ramble over a few posts

1. The “big bang” is when some proverbial frickery began…

Exploding outward into nothing creating life



As above, so below:





—-





We only can know what we can perceive (next posts)…
Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
130289 posts
Posted on 7/29/22 at 11:02 am to
quote:

The farthest galaxy that Webb has already identified is causing some issues with the Big Bang theory.


That's great!

quote:

I don’t have the specifics


lol

quote:

apparently the wavelength of the galaxy is too advanced for what it should be relative to the current theory.



That's awesome! That is what Webb is designed for, to gather data so we can expand our understanding.
Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
130289 posts
Posted on 7/29/22 at 11:05 am to
I have no idea what that insane rambling and assortment of pictures are supposed to mean, but I'm going to guess Science classes failed you.
Posted by ThinePreparedAni
In a sea of cognitive dissonance
Member since Mar 2013
11315 posts
Posted on 7/29/22 at 11:15 am to
Seems unrelated, but pertinent as it gets at the root of how we perceive (limited) and observe reality (again limited)

The quote I posted earlier in a thread was by man (McKenna) who pursued this extensively

https://www.vice.com/en/article/z34xa5/the-long-strange-relationship-between-psychedelics-and-telepathy

quote:

The Long, Strange Relationship Between Psychedelics and Telepathy


quote:

The word telepathy was coined in the 1880s by a British classicist named Frederick Myers, who helped found the Society for Psychical Research in London. (The word telepathy comes from the Greek root tele, meaning “from a distance,” and pathos meaning “feeling.”) He looked at thousands of case studies of people who—usually as they were close to dying—reported having communications with loved ones, and Myers would seek to confirm that those loved ones received the messages. Many of the well-known names associated with the early days of psychedelic research were involved in experiencing and testing the parapsychological, including Albert Hofmann, Humphrey Osmond, Aldous Huxley, Gordon Wasson, Timothy Leary, Ken Kesey, Walter Pahnke, Al Hubbard, and Stanislav Grof, to name a few.


quote:

Humphry Osmond, who coined the word “psychedelic,” reported that in 1957, he and researcher Duncan Blewett had a telepathic experience while taking mescaline. They “successfully transmitted telepathic information in an informal experiment to such a degree that an independent observer became acutely panicky at the uncanniness of the event, though, unfortunately, no formal experiment with a larger sample is reported,” Luke wrote. Osmond’s close friend, the writer Aldous Huxley, promoted French philosopher Henri Bergson’s theory of the brain as a filter which reduced information, like sensory inputs or memories, so reality wasn’t so overwhelming. Bergson wrote that without that filter, people might be able to remember everything that had ever happened to them, or perceive everything occurring in the universe—accessing a kind of clairvoyance. Huxley thought this was how psychedelics could lead to telepathy. He wrote that psychedelics might turn off the “reducing valve” in the brain, and people could be telepathic and have access to other mystical experiences. This theory is directly related to the title of his book, The Doors of Perception, which comes from a William Blake quote, “If the doors of perception were cleansed, everything would appear to man as it is, infinite.”


This concept is important (we only sense a small component of reality)
The band “The Doors” name was inspired by this…

More detail why this reduced capacity to perceive may have been advantageous from an evolutionary perspective:

https://www.ted.com/talks/donald_hoffman_do_we_see_reality_as_it_is

quote:

Do we see reality as it is?


quote:

Cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman is trying to answer a big question: Do we experience the world as it really is ... or as we need it to be? In this ever so slightly mind-blowing talk, he ponders how our minds construct reality for us.


TL:DW

Our brain has evolved to limit perception to only things that improve genetic/reproductive fitness

There are broader perceptions in the total of reality that we cannot typically tap into as these perceptions would overwhelm our ability to reproduce/thrive in current modern constructs

All of this relates to this thread because it points out that science will always be limited by what it can perceive and quantify. Our realm is much more mysterious and ineffable.
Posted by ThinePreparedAni
In a sea of cognitive dissonance
Member since Mar 2013
11315 posts
Posted on 7/29/22 at 11:19 am to
quote:

Science classes failed you


It has “failed” us all if you can perceive/sense what I am trying to convey

Look inward
This post was edited on 7/29/22 at 11:20 am
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
29105 posts
Posted on 7/29/22 at 11:22 am to
quote:

All of this relates to this thread because it points out that science will always be limited by what it can perceive and quantify.
We are well aware of our limited perception and a whole lot of science is done with tools we've built to perceive what we can't. Why do you think science is limited by our senses?
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