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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 3/17/24 at 12:07 am to
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
105479 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 12:07 am to
quote:

All Ukraine has to do is slow the Russian advance along enough for a long-range drone bombing program to inflict enough pain on Russia that Russia decides it's not worth it.


I don't think Russia will make a rational calculation that the war is a failed experiment and quit. They're deep into the sunk cost fallacy by now. If anything they're doubling down on wider territorial aspirations. In my view Ukraine will have to destroy enough oil infrastructure to actually make it impossible to fuel the Russian tanks and/or crash the economy such that there's chaos in the streets and a threat to the regime. I guess we'll see if Ukraine can pull it off.
Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
4607 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 4:47 am to
To support your warning about inflation coming to Russia, and to give us some Sunday morning reading, here are twelve facts about the current state of the Russian economy:

quote:

It is an increasingly common narrative in western media, that the Russian economy is resilient against sanctions and even benefited from higher energy prices. Here are 12 realities about the state of the Russian economy that you should know:

1. Russia’s economy was the size of Italy’s economy to beginn with

2. Since the war began, Russia is no longer submitting the data to the IMF and to the World Bank, that they are require members to submit - as a result, the IMF and the world bank have really no idea what Russia’s actual imports, exports, foreign direct investments, etc. are

3. The only direct source of information about the state of the Russian economy is Rosstat - the Russian Federal State Statistics Service

4. Rosstat is a state agency, under the control of the Kremlin and it’s leadership was exchanged three times since the beginning of the war in Ukraine (that is in line with the Kremlin looking to install leadership, that does the Kremlin’s bidding)

5. The IMF and World Bank economists are currently directly repeating the data from Rosstat, which is akin to asking President Putin directly, what the Russian GDP is on any given day

6. Academic studies that attempt to independently verify Rosstat’s data by e.g. going to the seller of an import to Russia, or to the buyer for an export from Russia, are unable to find any support for Rosstat’s data

7. What academic studies have shown is that every sector of the Russian economy is down between 60% - 99%

8. Unemployed workers of private companies, who had been released because their employers ceased operations in Russia, either fled the country, were put on the government payroll, either for menial jobs, or the war time economy

9. The ruble is currently not being traded, and since there is nobody buying, or selling it, the exchange rate is as fictitious as Russia’s GDP number, or the unemployment rate

10. Few nations are currently buying Russian goods, or services, but even the Russian energy sector is dwindled as the only remaining international customers of Russian oil and gas were not able to absorb the drop in international demand and paid below world market price (while the world market prices went up)

11. Putin is paying for all of this to keep the Russian population calm by running enormous deficits, funded in part by tapping into foreign currency reserves, as no international buyer is currently willing to buy Russian debt

12. The goods that are subject to sanctions (e.g. electronics, microchips, etc.) are no longer imported into Russia at scale - they are only supplied via smuggling operations, which is why you can buy a new iPhone 15 Pro Max - starting at 194,000 rubles (about $2,025) vs. 15 Pro Max - $1,200 in the United States; that is almost double the price in a country, in which the average annual income in 2023 was around 1,240,000 rubles, or approximately $14,771 vs. $59,384 in the United States

The reality is that Russia is suffering badly, outside a small elite around the centers of Moscow and Saint Petersburg, that western propagandists like Tucker Carlson might visit. The western financial institutions and the media, are not doing a very good job of describing these realities. The truth is, that we do not know what the actual value of the ruble is, or what the actual GDP growth of Russia is. But it is absolutely clear, that the picture which is being painted by the Kremlin as part of the misinformation war, does in no way reflect reality.

Don't forget to read the comments following the article. Good stuff.

Oh, and as a treat for finishing all of that, “Omnes legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus” translates to "We are all servants of the law so that we may be able to be free." As we all know, that's from the great LSU fan Cicero in his text Pro Cluentio 53.146., 66 BC.
This post was edited on 3/17/24 at 4:54 am
Posted by TigerFanatic99
South Bend, Indiana
Member since Jan 2007
36223 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 5:33 am to
quote:

that western propagandists like Tucker Carlson might visit


Totally unbiased news source.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16114 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 6:15 am to
[quote]To support your warning about inflation coming to Russia, and to give us some Sunday morning reading, here are twelve facts about the current state of the Russian economy:[/quote

My friend who is former finance director at Gazprom told me that the Russian economy is screwed for 10 if not 20 years. Case closed
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
139741 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 6:27 am to
quote:

or massively expand his own remote attacks on vulnerable Ukrainian infrastructure.
---
I think if that was possible it would already be in effect.
This is where the dialogue dangerously separates from reality.

Of course it is possible.
The means might be something too horrible to contemplate.
But Russia is fighting with an arm tied behind its back.
Right?

That seems all too easily forgotten.

If Putin decided to go with all options upto and including nukes, Russia could easily level the entirety of Ukraine. The consequence would probably be WWIII, and mutually assured destruction.

Would Putin do that? If the guy is as he's characterized here -- a murderous, insane, thug -- the answer could well be "yes."

Just to keep it real.
This post was edited on 3/17/24 at 6:29 am
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5729 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 6:36 am to
quote:

So far Russia hasn't shown the ability to stop these drone attacks while at the same time, Ukraine's capabilities in drone warfare are steadily increasing.


They're going to flip out when the drones reach the refineries east of the Urals.
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4691 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 6:53 am to
quote:

Do you need me to explain to you how wars are used to launder money


Yes please and make sure you state what illegal activity generated the funds as it specifically relates to US taxpayers

quote:

Money laundering involves disguising financial assets so they can be used without detection of the illegal activity that produced them


This post was edited on 3/17/24 at 6:55 am
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5729 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 6:56 am to
quote:

In my view Ukraine will have to destroy enough oil infrastructure to actually make it impossible to fuel the Russian tanks and/or crash the economy such that there's chaos in the streets and a threat to the regime.


Another factor is how the Russian public will deal with the possibility of potential gasoline shortages. Could lead to panic buying and hoarding which in turn makes the situation worse even before actual shortages occur.
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5729 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 6:59 am to
British Defence Intelligence
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE
17 March 2024

On 11 March 2024, research from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) indicated that Russian arms exports fell by 53% between the periods 2014-2018 and 2019-2023

As a result, Russia dropped from second to third place in the global arms export rankings. Russian arms export volumes were 52% lower in 2023 than in 2022, while only 12 countries received major Russian arms in 2023, compared to 31 in 2019.

The decline is likely due to several factors including Russia prioritising equipment for operations in Ukraine due to continuous battlefield losses, and reduced customer demand due to the risk of associated sanctions and global condemnation of Russia's responsibility for the war.
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5729 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 7:12 am to
Ukrainian special forces behind drone attack on Russia's Slavyansk refinery – Ukrainska Pravda source
VALENTYNA ROMANENKO — Sunday, 17 March 2024, 10:56

The Security Service of Ukraine (SSU), together with the Special Operations Forces and the Unmanned Systems Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, attacked the Slavyansk-on-Kuban oil refinery in Russia's Krasnodar Krai with drones on the night of 16-17 March.

Source: a Ukrainska Pravda source in the SSU

Details: The source indicated that the attack was successful, as a large-scale fire was reported near the atmospheric distillation towers, which were the primary targets.

The source noted that the SSU drones have recently successfully struck 12 oil refineries in Russia.

Quote: "Thanks to the SSU, the [Russian] acronym for 'refinery', NPZ, now stands for 'New Plant Zapped’."

Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21029 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 7:13 am to
quote:

Yes please and make sure you state what illegal activity generated the funds as it specifically relates to US taxpayers


Half of this thread is just the knowledgeable people trying to educate the 3rd-graders.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16114 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 7:34 am to
quote:

This is where the dialogue dangerously separates from reality.

Of course it is possible.
The means might be something too horrible to contemplate.
But Russia is fighting with an arm tied behind its back.
Right?


So, you are buying the Putin tactic of scaring the women and men without balls?

We already KNOW that Russia's nuke force is a lot of bluster. They have a difficult time with their system of refueling ballistic missiles whether solid fuel or liquid hydrogen. We know that their "hypersonic" missile is not a true one, it gains its speed from gravity after initial high altitude. Accuracy is questionable.

It is fighting with one hand tied behind its back. China hasn't ordered any new weapons since 2015. Russia has fallen from 30% of international arms sales to 4.4%. Also, NO ONE buys Russian artillery, from a nation which bases military doctrine on heavy use of artillery.

Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16114 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 7:41 am to
quote:

Details: The source indicated that the attack was successful, as a large-scale fire was reported near the atmospheric distillation towers, which were the primary targets.


In refining circles, that is referred to as a topping plant. It's a small one at that, though less than a decade old. Yes, it is technically a refinery. Two were built by Calumet in ND before 2014, to take the diesel cut out of Bakken crude oil for local demand. The rest was put into crude oil pipelines. Both were bankrupt as a result of drilling collapse in 2014.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16114 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 7:56 am to
quote:

Are you joking?


US arms sales have skyrocketed in orders NOT FROM UKRAINE. Defense contractors say thank you Putain, you're our best salesman.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21029 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 8:46 am to
quote:

US arms sales have skyrocketed in orders NOT FROM UKRAINE. Defense contractors say thank you Putain, you're our best salesman.



See, they think that's a bad thing. They rail against the "MIC," because they're on the other side. They are with Russia, China, Iran, and the Norks.
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5729 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 8:58 am to
Restrictions reportedly imposed at three Moscow airports due to drone attack
March 17, 2024, 06:45 AM

Restrictions were imposed on the arrival and departure of aircraft at Moscow's Domodedovo, Vnukovo, and Zhukovsky airports due to a drone attack, the Russian propaganda agency RIA Novosti reported on March 17.

Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin earlier reported a UAV attack in three city districts of the Russian capital.

All drones were allegedly shot down.

The Russian Defense Ministry reported on March 17 that overnight drones attacked eight Russian regions.

The Russian authorities claim that their air defense intercepted and destroyed 35 drones: 17 in Krasnodar Krai, four in Moscow and Yaroslavl oblasts, three in Kursk and Belgorod oblasts, two in Kaluga Oblast, one in Oryol and Rostov oblasts.

The New Voice of Ukraine
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
4156 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 8:58 am to
my favorite thing is when they droll on and on about “the west”

bro you live in the west
Posted by tigeraddict
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
14897 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 9:01 am to
quote:

See, they think that's a bad thing. They rail against the "MIC," because they're on the other side. They are with Russia, China, Iran, and the Norks.


Russia was the 2nd largest arms exported before 2022. Exports have greatly declined for two reasons. One is Russia needs the weapons to continue to conduct war efforts in Ukraine. And second is this war has shown western weapon platforms are superior to Russian platforms.

Western (nato) countries are ramping up military spending to counter the Russian threat, to deliver to Ukraine, and to fill the increase in orders to replace Russias lost market share.

Ramping up production capacity to fill orders strengthens the west, as we will have a higher capacity to churn out weapons and munitions in the event of a conflict.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42751 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 9:27 am to
quote:

3. The only direct source of information about the state of the Russian economy is Rosstat - the Russian Federal State Statistics Service


False

Lima Whiskey will be here in short order to set us all straight.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
139741 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 9:38 am to
quote:

We already KNOW that Russia's nuke force is a lot of bluster.
Wow. Sorry, but that is dangerously stupid stuff.

You know how much trouble the Ukrainian naval drones have caused Russia? You know how much trouble the Houthi naval drones have caused us?

Russia has a slightly more potent version.
How Russia’s New Doomsday Torpedo Works.


Bluster?
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