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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 11/16/23 at 3:46 pm to Bunk Moreland
Posted on 11/16/23 at 3:46 pm to Bunk Moreland
Sensible people saw this a long time ago.
General GOP will continue to post super zoomed in maps showing where Ukraine advanced 50ft somewhere but the reality is support for Ukraine is collapsing.
Even the most pro Ukraine posters here knew something big needed to happen before this winter. They said it themselves that the spring or summer offensive needed to be successful in order for this thing to go on but it just didn't happen.
General GOP will continue to post super zoomed in maps showing where Ukraine advanced 50ft somewhere but the reality is support for Ukraine is collapsing.
Even the most pro Ukraine posters here knew something big needed to happen before this winter. They said it themselves that the spring or summer offensive needed to be successful in order for this thing to go on but it just didn't happen.
2
Posted on 11/16/23 at 3:58 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Discussing peace talks now is stupid, because Putin is still committed to conquering the rest of the Ukraine.
FIFY
The fact that Putin is still insisting on Ukraine disarming, Zelensky resigning, and Russian being able to oversee the new elections tell us that Russia is still wanting all of Ukraine not just the Donbas. However, according to my friends in Russia if Putin made peace now without even conquering all of the Donbas even his own supporters would mutiny against him. Bottom line is that unless one side is ready to capitulate (and neither side is willing) calls for peace talks have about as much shot of working as I have of stealing Taylor Swift from Travis Kelce.
Posted on 11/16/23 at 4:21 pm to Tiger985
quote:
Sensible people saw this a long time ago.
Were these the sensible people who thought Ukraine would fall within two weeks, or the sensible people who assumed Russian equipment worked?
Or the sensible people who didn't believe Putin killed 80% of the VDV in the first month of the conflict?
What do sensible people think about the EU giving Ukraine $50b next month? Or Germany (and Germany ALONE) giving Ukraine $8b in military aid in 2024?
Posted on 11/16/23 at 4:29 pm to RuLSU
quote:
What do sensible people think about the EU giving Ukraine $50b next month? Or Germany (and Germany ALONE) giving Ukraine $8b in military aid in 2024?
Do you think lack of money is the primary reason Ukraine failed to break through over the spring/summer?
Posted on 11/16/23 at 4:51 pm to Tiger985
I think it is 100% air control. If Ukraine had a proper airforce and that could destroy Soviet positions behind enemy lines, getting pass the mines would have been much easier. First, they needed to destroy all the air defense systems. Then, bomb all positions behind the lines. Ukraine would have been able to advance after that. Between the strongly built up and underestimated Soviet defensive positions (trenches, artillery, lots of troops) + lack of air supremacy, this was always going to be very difficult for Ukraine.
This post was edited on 11/16/23 at 4:52 pm
Posted on 11/16/23 at 4:55 pm to Bunk Moreland
I appreciate that a Russian victory can be whatever the frick it needs to be at any given time
Posted on 11/16/23 at 5:34 pm to Tiger985
quote:
Do you think lack of money is the primary reason Ukraine failed to break through over the spring/summer?
No. Ukraine failed to break through over the spring and the summer because the west rushed them to launch the attack before they were ready. They also underestimated the strength of the Russian defenses. However, that is now being remedied. Since June Ukraine has doubled the number of combat engineers (aka sappers) it is training in country, and increased the number of sappers being trained by France, Poland, Canada, the UK, and the USA. However, those things take money so money is important.
This post was edited on 11/16/23 at 5:41 pm
Posted on 11/16/23 at 5:37 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
Russian industrial production just dwarfs ours. They lost some capacity through mergers, like we did, but there was no whole scale deindustrialization like we experienced.
That is laughable.
Posted on 11/16/23 at 5:41 pm to CitizenK
I'm here for the melt as it finally comes to light y'all have been lied to the whole time
Posted on 11/16/23 at 5:42 pm to CitizenK
quote:
That is laughable.
Lima Whiskey is either an American veteran who has turned traitor and is working for the FSB or an FSB agent pretending to be an American veteran. Either way he is working for the FSB.
Posted on 11/16/23 at 5:59 pm to Auburn1968
Posted on 11/16/23 at 6:00 pm to WeeWee
Ukraine deploys three brigades across Dnipro River — report
November 16, 2023, 03:30 PM
Ukrainian forces have successfully deployed three brigades to the left bank of the Dnipro River in Kherson Oblast, while the broader southern counteroffensive has culminated, The Guardian reported on Nov. 16, citing unnamed Western officials.
“A significant force, described as three brigades, had established a position across the Dnipro that the Russians have proved unable to dislodge, although it was unclear, they said, how much armor the Ukrainian military had been able to get across the river,” the report reads.
The New Voice of Ukraine
November 16, 2023, 03:30 PM
Ukrainian forces have successfully deployed three brigades to the left bank of the Dnipro River in Kherson Oblast, while the broader southern counteroffensive has culminated, The Guardian reported on Nov. 16, citing unnamed Western officials.
“A significant force, described as three brigades, had established a position across the Dnipro that the Russians have proved unable to dislodge, although it was unclear, they said, how much armor the Ukrainian military had been able to get across the river,” the report reads.
The New Voice of Ukraine
Posted on 11/16/23 at 6:01 pm to doubleb
quote:
For one last time, the aid we give Ukraine has nothing to do with locking down the Southern border. Zero, zilch, nada.
This is dumb take. Money is fungible.
If we don’t piss it away funding a losing war, we could spend it on other things.
Or not spend it at all.
Lock down the borders and stop policing the world. frick Ukraine. Not an American problem.
Meanwhile our roads, public schools, airports, etc are crumbling as we piss away money to every country panhandling for it. frick them. All of them.
Posted on 11/16/23 at 6:12 pm to Tiger985
quote:
Soldiers of Ukrainian 808th Pontoon Bridge Regiment continue to practice to overcome large water obstacles. #UkrainianArmy
LINK
Looks like the crazy Ukies are practicing bridge building across large bodies of water. Gee I wonder what large body of water they could need to cross?
FWIW here is a map of the Russian defenses on what is now being called the Dnipro front.
LINK
It is a very tough task to carry out amphibious assaults and I am not saying that Ukraine can or will do it. However, if the Ukrainians can get bridge(s) across the Dnipro river (which is at lower than normal levels right now thanks to drought this summer and Russia being kind enough to blow the dam and drain the reservoir) they would face much weaker defenses than in the Zap oblast. Plus it is only 45 km from Krynky to the border of Crimea. Ukraine could bull rush those 45 km and cut the Russians off from Crimea or attack Melitopol from the rear and sever the land bridge to Crimea. Also Russia could not flood the area to stop them like they could last year because they blew the Nova Kakhova dam and drained the reservoir and the north crimean canal is bone dry again.
Posted on 11/16/23 at 6:26 pm to WeeWee
quote:
Wait a minute. They have not done that already? This invasion is like 20 months old. Geez how stupid are the people in charge of sanctions?
Ever think it was advantageous for those in power for this war to drag on rather than end it quickly
Meaning it’s a dog and pony show while the elite line their pockets
Posted on 11/16/23 at 6:29 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
if they haven't already, that they will have to take Odessa to keep Crimea safe.
Russia has been playing defense in that part of the war for the past 18 months. However, even if Russia's fortunes reversed and it went on the offensive the nearest Russian forces are ~200 km from Odessa. In order to reach Odessa they would have to cross the Dnipro river. Advance to Mykolaiv and cross the Pivdennyi Buh River, then cross the Tilgul'sky Liman. That is three major water crossing and the only time Russia has demonstrated the ability to cross a major body of water was on the opening day of the war when the Ukrainian commander who was supposed to blow the bridge across the Dnipro defected to Russia. Russian warships will not come within 100 km of the shore because of the threat of Ukrainian anti-ship missiles. So please ask your FSB superiors to explain to you how anyone with a working brain could possibly think Russia has the ability to take Odessa?
Posted on 11/16/23 at 6:32 pm to deltaland
quote:
Wait a minute. They have not done that already? This invasion is like 20 months old. Geez how stupid are the people in charge of sanctions?
Ever think it was advantageous for those in power for this war to drag on rather than end it quickly
Of course. However I did not expect them to be stupid enough to ban exporting parts for civilian airplanes or allowing Russian Airbus aircraft to come to Europe for maintenance thus endangering innocent civilian lives on the first day of the way, but wait 20+ months to realize they should also ban the export of any machinery that can be used to build weapons.
Posted on 11/16/23 at 6:38 pm to No Colors
quote:
due to the anemic industrial output of the West, Western states can not produce remotely enough new equipment to keep Ukraine supplied. That's enough of that nonsense now. Russia has an economy roughly the size of New Jersey. "The West" as you call it (let's just say the USA and the EU plus England) has industrial economic output about 30x what Russia has.
Yea but we aren’t giving all our equipment to Ukraine we have our own needs too. And nobody in Europe maintains a large military besides maybe France. So it’s pretty much all US manufactured, even the equipment our Allies own is mostly manufactured in the US and sold to them
Posted on 11/16/23 at 7:02 pm to Tiger985
quote:
Sensible people saw this a long time ago.
General GOP will continue to post super zoomed in maps showing where Ukraine advanced 50ft somewhere but the reality is support for Ukraine is collapsing.
Posted on 11/16/23 at 7:03 pm to CitizenK
quote:
That is laughable.
What does the US produce now more than they did in the 70-80's?
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