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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 9/25/23 at 12:58 pm to GOP_Tiger
thought we were sending a total of 31
also, guess we will see reports of russin destroying 100 by the end of the week....
also, guess we will see reports of russin destroying 100 by the end of the week....
Posted on 9/25/23 at 1:00 pm to doubleb
quote:
I do not feel that abandoning Ukraine is an option. It makes us look weak and it erodes the confidence others have in us to live up to our promises.
What others are you talking about?
Posted on 9/25/23 at 1:06 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
If The Ukraine cannot win this war with U.S. aid, then why continue funding them? Every dollar spent there is one we have to borrow with interest or one taken from domestic needs. At what point does one cut bait and stop throwing good money after bad?
Posted on 9/25/23 at 1:18 pm to kingbob
quote:
If The Ukraine cannot win this war with U.S. aid, then why continue funding them? Every dollar spent there is one we have to borrow with interest or one taken from domestic needs. At what point does one cut bait and stop throwing good money after bad?
When is sending retired weapons, sending money? I get that they are assets on the books, just like Halliburton et al have drilling mud on their books still for a decade after it has become inverted with more water than diesel. It is just sitting there as an asset but once used 3 or 4 times unsuitable for reuse.
Posted on 9/25/23 at 1:19 pm to kingbob
quote:
Every dollar spent there is one we have to borrow with interest or one taken from domestic needs
Posted on 9/25/23 at 1:20 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
Oh, i dont know, taiwan?
Posted on 9/25/23 at 1:42 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
What others are you talking about?
Taiwan
S Korea
Japan
Israel
Domestic:
Soc. Security
Medicare
Medicaid
Those are some biggies
Posted on 9/25/23 at 2:13 pm to WestCoastAg
For people who see conspiracies everywhere they really are awful at connecting dots.
Posted on 9/25/23 at 3:54 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
If The Ukraine cannot win this war with U.S. aid, then why continue funding them? Every dollar spent there is one we have to borrow with interest or one taken from domestic needs. At what point does one cut bait and stop throwing good money after bad?
When they're not bleeding Russia effectively, maybe.
And no-- these aren't borrowed dollars, largely. Most of them are dollars already appropriated-- we're changing the funding we had already earmarked for scheduled weapons disposal, to transportation-- at least the vast bulk of it.
Anyone who claims poverty over our aid to the Ukraine is being disingenous at best. No, we're not draining the treasury for them, to do to our greatest enemy of the last century, what we want them to do, for the cost of about 6 weeks of Pentagon budget, that has already been allocated.
This is the happy byproduct of the last major defense appropriations update under Trump-- this is a windfall of that plan, and of the foresight of that administration in giving us the surplus in old gear that is leaving service, that we can spare to demolish the Russian Army.
This post was edited on 9/25/23 at 3:56 pm
Posted on 9/25/23 at 4:00 pm to RuLSU
quote:
Last week a market was hit in Ukraine that killed 17 people. The entire international community was outraged......until they werent... when it was discovered it was a ukranian strike.
quote:
Wow, that's amazing. Can you provide a link to this incredible, almost unbelievable, story?
I'll wait.
Evidence Suggests Ukrainian Missile Caused Market Tragedy - The New York Times
LINK
Posted on 9/25/23 at 4:35 pm to CitizenK
quote:
When is sending retired weapons, sending money? I get that they are assets on the books, just like Halliburton et al have drilling mud on their books still for a decade after it has become inverted with more water than diesel. It is just sitting there as an asset but once used 3 or 4 times unsuitable for reuse.
While HIMARS, Excalibur, Javelins and such are still very current "on the books" there are indeed a great many very effective weapon's systems that are in or past sunset phase.
For example, the HAWK missile has been largely retired among US forces and internationally, but are still >80% effective. Medium range, smaller and towed. It was first fielded in 1959.
Operational
range
28–31 mi (45–50 km)
Flight ceiling 65,000 feet (20,000 m)
Maximum speed Mach 2.4
Guidance
system
Semi-active radar homing
This post was edited on 9/25/23 at 4:38 pm
Posted on 9/25/23 at 5:49 pm to BoardReader
quote:
When they're not bleeding Russia effectively, maybe.
All of that. But people also need to keep in mind that Russia is still determined to conquer more of Ukraine. Their official policy is that they are going to conquer the rest of the Donbas.
Anyone who pretends that stopping western aid would end the war is a Russian liar or a complete idiot. If NATO were to cut off Ukraine, then Russia would go on the offensive again and slowly conquer more territory, as it might take Russia years to do that.
The only difference would be that a lot more Ukrainians would die. And that's what those people really want: a lot more dead Ukrainians.
Posted on 9/25/23 at 6:50 pm to GOP_Tiger
ISW Update
quote:
The tactical situation in Verbove remains unclear amid continued Ukrainian offensive operations in western Zaporizhia Oblast on September 25. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces continued offensive operations in the Melitopol (western Zaporizhia Oblast) direction and offensive assaults in the Bakhmut direction, inflicting losses on Russian manpower and equipment and depleting Russian forces along the entire front line.[1] Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces reached northern Verbove (18km southeast of Orikhiv) but that Russian forces pushed them back to their original positions.
The Ukrainian Special Operations Forces reported on September 25 that a precision Ukrainian strike on the headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet (BSF) in occupied Sevastopol, Crimea, on September 22 killed 34 Russian officers, including BSF Commander Admiral Viktor Sokolov.[4] Ukrainian Special Operations Forces reported that the strike, which occurred during a meeting of senior BSF leadership, also wounded 105 Russian personnel.[5] Ukrainian Main Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) Head Lieutenant General Kyrylo Budanov stated on September 23 that the strike seriously wounded the commander of the Russian 200th Separate Motorized Rifle Brigade (Northern Fleet), Lieutenant General Oleg Tsekov, and the commander of the Russian grouping of forces in Zaporizhia Oblast, Colonel General Alexander Romanchuk
Ukrainian forces reportedly struck the Khalino Airfield and a Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) building in Kursk Oblast during a series of drone strikes on September 24. Ukrainian media reported on September 24 that sources connected to the Ukrainian GUR stated that Ukrainian forces struck an FSB building and an oil refinery near the Khalino Airfield in Kursk Oblast.[8] Russian Kursk Oblast Governor Roman Starovoyt confirmed that a Ukrainian drone struck an administrative building in the Central District of Kursk City
Russian forces conducted a series of Shahed-131/136 drone and missile strikes on the night of September 24-25 against Ukrainian port, grain, and military targets. Ukrainian military officials reported that Russian forces launched 12 Kalibr sea-launched cruise missiles from the Black Sea, two Onyx cruise missiles from the Sevastopol area, and 19 Shahed drones from Krasnodar Krai.[13] Ukrainian air defenses shot down 11 Kalibr missiles and all 19 drones.[14] Ukrainian military officials reported that Russian forces struck port and grain infrastructure in Odesa Oblast, and footage shows that Russian strikes damaged a hotel in Odesa City.[15] Russian sources, including the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD), claimed that Russian forces struck a Ukrainian MiG-29 fighter aircraft at the Dolhintsevo airfield in Dnipropetrovsk Oblast
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky confirmed on September 25 that US-provided Abrams tanks have arrived in Ukraine.[18] The New York Times reported that US officials stated that the US delivered an unspecified number of Abrams tanks to Ukraine on September 23 and that the Biden administration intends to send 31 Abrams in total.[19] Politico previously reported on August 31 that Ukraine would receive the first 10 of 31 Abrams tanks in mid-September.[20]
Russian military officials continue efforts to build out the Russian armed forces to suit the needs of Russian forces fighting in Ukraine. Russian outlet Izvestia, citing sources in the Russian military, claimed on September 25 that the Russian armed forces are forming reconnaissance and assault brigades in combined arms armies and newly formed army corps and that these brigades are already actively recruiting.[21] Izvestia reported that the new units will be comprised of assault troops intended to break through layered defenses and reconnaissance troops that will conduct reconnaissance at “tactical depth,” and noted that each brigade will receive tanks, light armored vehicles, artillery, and various drones.[22] Izvestia emphasized that these new brigades are meant to overcome pre-prepared Ukrainian defensive positions, particularly in areas of Donbas, where Ukrainian forces have been expanding and equipping fortifications since Russia’s first invasion in 2014. Colonel Valery Yuryev, chairman of the Russian Union of Paratroopers, told Izvestia that the war has stressed the “need to have specialized units for storming fortified areas” and that “separate assault units and formations are necessary.”
The Kremlin and the Armenian government continue to deflect blame onto one another over the surrender of Nagorno-Karabakh to Azerbaijan amidst deteriorating Armenian-Russian relations. Armenian Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan delivered an address on September 24 in which he criticized Russia by stating that the Russian-led security structures of which Armenia is a part are ineffective and by questioning the motives of the Russian peacekeeping contingent in Nagorno-Karabakh.
quote:
Key Takeaways:
The tactical situation in Verbove remains unclear amid continued Ukrainian offensive operations in western Zaporizhia Oblast on September 25.
The Ukrainian Special Operations Forces reported on September 25 that a precision Ukrainian strike on the headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet (BSF) in occupied Sevastopol, Crimea, on September 22 killed 34 Russian officers, including BSF Commander Admiral Viktor Sokolov
Ukrainian forces reportedly struck the Khalino Airfield and a Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) building in Kursk Oblast during a series of drone strikes on September 24.
Russian forces conducted a series of Shahed-131/136 drone and missile strikes on the night of September 24-25 against Ukrainian port, grain, and military targets.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky confirmed on September 25 that US-provided Abrams tanks have arrived in Ukraine.
Russian military officials continue efforts to build out the Russian armed forces to suit the needs of Russian forces fighting in Ukraine.
The Kremlin and the Armenian government continue to deflect blame onto one another over the surrender of Nagorno-Karabakh to Azerbaijan amidst deteriorating Armenian-Russian relations.
Russian forces continued unsuccessful offensive operations near Bakhmut, along the Avdiivka-Donetsk City line, and in western Zaporizhia Oblast.
Ukrainian forces conducted offensive operations near Bakhmut, in the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border area, and in western Zaporizhia Oblast but did not make any confirmed gains.
Russian officials continue to deport children from occupied Ukraine to Russia.
Posted on 9/26/23 at 4:38 am to StormyMcMan
British Defence Intelligence
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 26 September 2023
The Russian Black Sea Fleet (BSF) has suffered a series of major attacks in recent weeks, culminating in strikes on its headquarters on 20 and 22 September 2023. These attacks have been more damaging and more coordinated than thus far in the war.
The physical damage to the BSF is almost certainly severe but localised. The fleet almost certainly remains capable of fulfilling its core wartime missions of cruise missile strikes and local security patrols. It is, however, likely that its ability to continue wider regional security patrols and enforce its de facto blockade of Ukrainian ports will be diminished. It also likely has a degraded ability to defend its assets in port and to conduct routine maintenance.
A dynamic, deep strike battle is underway in the Black Sea. This is likely forcing Russia into a reactive posture whilst demonstrating that Ukraine's military can undermine the Kremlin's symbolic and strategic power projection from its warm water port in occupied Sevastopol.
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 26 September 2023
The Russian Black Sea Fleet (BSF) has suffered a series of major attacks in recent weeks, culminating in strikes on its headquarters on 20 and 22 September 2023. These attacks have been more damaging and more coordinated than thus far in the war.
The physical damage to the BSF is almost certainly severe but localised. The fleet almost certainly remains capable of fulfilling its core wartime missions of cruise missile strikes and local security patrols. It is, however, likely that its ability to continue wider regional security patrols and enforce its de facto blockade of Ukrainian ports will be diminished. It also likely has a degraded ability to defend its assets in port and to conduct routine maintenance.
A dynamic, deep strike battle is underway in the Black Sea. This is likely forcing Russia into a reactive posture whilst demonstrating that Ukraine's military can undermine the Kremlin's symbolic and strategic power projection from its warm water port in occupied Sevastopol.
Posted on 9/26/23 at 6:45 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
The only difference would be that a lot more Ukrainians would die. And that's what those people really want: a lot more dead Ukrainians.
A short war means fewer dead, and less damage to the country. A long war will result in the opposite.
Posted on 9/26/23 at 7:49 am to Lima Whiskey
quote:
A short war means fewer dead, and less damage to the country. A long war will result in the opposite.
So you would recommend that Ukraine surrender or the west surrender for them I guess.
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