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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 6/26/23 at 6:33 pm to
Posted by jefffan
Florence- Sumter- Columbia, SC
Member since Sep 2013
4971 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 6:33 pm to
All the mines Russia laid down in the winter seem to be slowing Ukraine down. What's the counter to them? Is it just an Army of Minesweepers?
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
4156 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 6:48 pm to
The counter is air superiority and blowing up the people defending the mine field.

Ukraine doesn’t have that option
Posted by Auburn1968
NYC
Member since Mar 2019
26879 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 6:53 pm to
quote:

They're all literally gangsters. It's a vast organized crime network.



On the collapse of Communism in the USSR, one would think that the only proper way divide up the means of production would have been to give everyone an equal share. In reality, a few well connected party bosses became billionaires and that was gangsterism.
Posted by Royal
God's Country
Member since Apr 2009
1046 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 7:17 pm to
quote:

Russia


quote:

alternate reality.


Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16113 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 7:19 pm to
quote:

On the collapse of Communism in the USSR, one would think that the only proper way divide up the means of production would have been to give everyone an equal share. In reality, a few well connected party bosses became billionaires and that was gangsterism.


They did do that and several on street corners bought up the shares from clueless shareholders, that was for all state owned companies. The problem was later when large shareholders were being told to sell or their shares would be worthless. Also, only the insiders knew which companies had any value, since all were propped up by the government during the Soviet Era.
Posted by ImaObserver
Member since Aug 2019
2508 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 8:01 pm to
quote:

re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

That is the name of this thread -- Yevgeny Prigozhin is another topic. Can we please stick the subject of activities in the actual conflict in Ukraine?? There hasn't been shydt for information of activities at the front for pages.
Thank You!
Posted by notiger1997
Metairie
Member since May 2009
61743 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 8:06 pm to
No
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8185 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 8:17 pm to
Looking forward to your contributions, post em if you got em

ETA: Once you're a recognized contributor to the thread, then we might humor you when you tell us what or what not to discuss.
This post was edited on 6/26/23 at 8:20 pm
Posted by Dr RC
The Money Pit
Member since Aug 2011
61503 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 8:39 pm to
The head of the major fighting force for Russia who just led a mini revolt against Russian leadership got banished to Belarus and you’re trying to say it’s not on topic? Dafuq?
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 8:51 pm to
quote:

quote:Putin stronger, Wagner & it’s Neo-Nazi leadership is still in tact, Putin was able to oust some of his adversarial Generals who talked him into going after Ukraine, the Russian people rejoice because the Ukraine war is over with, and the US/West blew billions.


You think this person realizes they’re in effect saying Russia used neo Nazis to fight neo Nazis in Ukraine to rid it from neo Nazis?
Posted by ImaObserver
Member since Aug 2019
2508 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 9:27 pm to
Sorry if I intruded into your realm. I have followed your postings regularly and admired their content. I still say that we need to know what is going on in Ukraine more than we need to be reading a thread discussing peripheral issues.
Posted by Obtuse1
Westside Bodymore Yo
Member since Sep 2016
30656 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 9:30 pm to
quote:

All the mines Russia laid down in the winter seem to be slowing Ukraine down. What's the counter to them? Is it just an Army of Minesweepers?


Countering minefields to restore mobility is an engineer mission hopefully supported by combined arms.

Every army in the world including the US Army is lacking in engineering assets.

There are multiple ways to breach a minefield from grunts with (non-metallic) sticks to branched Engineers with MICLICs and armored lane-proofing vehicles.

How you approach this depends on a lot of factors. Size of the field, type of mines (it can be a mixed minefield with several varieties), how critical timing is, and the amount of direct/indirect fire the enemy can rain down on you during breaching.

You need to set up three forces: breach, support, and assault. This is after proper recon so you have as much intel on the specifics I mentioned in the last paragraph. You send them in a specific order based on the conditions the enemy has set for you:


1. Enemy contact unlikely: Breach Support Assault
2. Contact likely, dismounted avenue Assault Support Breach
3. Contact likely, mounted avenue Support Breach Assault

The breach team will be equipped with what makes the most sense to breach that minefield. You have to keep in mind in a protracted conflict using just enough assets to do the job and if they are depleting assets (explosive based) using the ones that are in the largest supply that will still alloy for the accomplishment of the mission ie: don't use an M58 MICLIC for a handful of surface laid anti-armor mines on the approach to a bridge, a couple of engineers with a bag full of 1lb C-4 charges with timed fuses makes a lot more sense from a logistics POV. However, if this same minefield has a company of grunts guarding it and/or arty has it set as an on-call target you are going to want a different approach.

I really haven't answered your question since mining/countermining is a big area that combat engineers spend a lot of time on. I suppose it could suffice to say there are a number of options for well-trained engineers depending on the enemy, available assets, along with the type and size of the minefield. At least so far we haven't seen any chemical mines...

If you really want to go down the rabbit hole try to find an online PDF of FM 20-32. You want to get the one from 1998 with the latest updates you can find. The ones from the 70's are significantly out of date.





Posted by IAmNERD
Member since May 2017
24348 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 9:53 pm to
quote:

Brutal video of Ukrainian soldiers getting caught in a minefield and their subsequent extraction via a Bradley.

Is that a MICLIC line charge that failed to detonate that the Bradley seems to be parked over? You get a sense of just how long it is when the drone pans up to look at the first artillery explosion in the distance and that's what it certainly looks like to me.

What a shitty situation to be in.
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8185 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 10:18 pm to
quote:

Sorry if I intruded into your realm. I have followed your postings regularly and admired their content. I still say that we need to know what is going on in Ukraine more than we need to be reading a thread discussing peripheral issues.


Fair enough, I apologize for clapping back hard. I thought you were trolling.

The challenge is there isn't much news flowing out of the front lines at the moment other than the following...and there isn't much real news about any of these.

1) There is the bridgehead over the river at Kherson
2) The Ukrainian capture of Rivnopil
3) Reported gains on the flanks of Bakhumt

Ukraine has done a really good job of clamping down on the social media space around it's operations. Makes for a lot of white noise and not much detail.

I do disagree that the Wagner March for Justice is a peripheral issue. It's the single biggest issue that has occurred since Ukraine retook Kherson. It has the potential to have a tremendous impact on the course of the war. It appears that Russia's best unit is off the chessboard for the time being, maybe forever. As a side effect, the Chechen units also appear to be headed home thus removing another well-equipped, albeit of questionable quality, set of units.

There also appears to be a LOT of dissension in the ranks of the Russian military.

There is also the matter of what we learned about the Russian military from Wagner's march. It is an eggshell, unable to muster the combat power to stop a hostile force approaching its capital. The best descriptor for the Russian Military at this point is Clusterfrick.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21029 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 10:29 pm to
quote:

There hasn't been shydt for information of activities at the front for pages.


Well, Zelensky bragged in his evening speech about progress tonight on multiple fronts, and there's evidence to back that up.

1) Ukraine made significant progress south of Bakhmut yesterday for the first time in a while, clearing out all Russian forces west of the Donbas Canal. I expect Ukraine to take Klischiivka soon, and then they can really start to put pressure on Russian forces in Bakhmut.

2) The "bridgehead" on the left bank of the Dnipro near Kherson was significantly expanded, and Ukrainian forces are now significantly threatening the town of Oleshky. I don't think that Ukraine is prepared to take the town anytime in the next couple of days, but Ukraine is making progress. Taking Oleshky and then clearing the surrounding area could eventually allow Ukraine to put a pontoon bridge over the Dnipro.

3) Taking Rivnopil on the Velyka Novosilka axis (what Russians call the Vremivsky Ridge axis) allow Ukraine to open a much wider front there. Rivnopil had held out as a bastion: Ukraine had advanced beyond it, but it was a challenge to deal with those Russian forces in their rear, so taking out the Russians there mean that Ukraine can move artillery and other equipment much closer to Staromaiorske and Urozhaine.

So, yeah, Ukraine really hadn't made much progress in the last week or so; this was very much needed to show that the offensive is still effectively working.


EDIT: What Chromedome said.
This post was edited on 6/26/23 at 10:33 pm
Posted by MSUDawg98
Bear the F Down
Member since Jan 2018
13982 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 10:38 pm to
There's no way Putin stays in power. The only warriors actually fighting for him were TWG. They're gone and now Putin is left with a conscription heavy military who will either be killed in a heavy war zone or leave. Either way Putin can't hide that is a failed war anymore. He'll have to negotiate for his own safety within Russia's borders or be forced into exile hoping that Belarus doesn't hand him over to Interpol. Or does he deploy a tactical nuke when he realizes that he's out of options?
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8185 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 10:47 pm to
What good would a single tactical nuke do? Tactical nukes are small, designed to limit damage, it would only affect a very limited area of the front.

It would take many tactical nukes to change the battlefield...and the West won't stand by if Putin starts popping them off in Ukraine.

I don't think nukes will ever be used in this war at it's current scale.
Posted by TBoy
Kalamazoo
Member since Dec 2007
28773 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 10:52 pm to
quote:

I do disagree that the Wagner March for Justice is a peripheral issue

That single event removed tens of thousands of trained and experienced combatants out of the Russian operation.
Posted by Errerrerrwere
Member since Aug 2015
44412 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 10:54 pm to
quote:


That single event removed tens of thousands of trained and experienced combatants out of the Russian operation


Copium
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8185 posts
Posted on 6/26/23 at 10:57 pm to
quote:

Copium

Are you saying that didn't happen?

I asked you yesterday to tell us what happened, you never responded. I'll assume this will be the same.
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