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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 1/26/23 at 7:33 pm to tigeraddict
Posted on 1/26/23 at 7:33 pm to tigeraddict
Long article on aircraft in Politico, but well worth the read:
quote:
For Ukraine, the struggle to secure Western battle tanks was just the start.
With U.S.-built Abrams and German-made Leopards now headed for the front line following months of bickering among Western allies, military planners in Kyiv are turning their attention to what they see as the logical next step in their effort to repel Russian invaders — shipments of modern fighter jets.
Conversations with more than half a dozen Western military officials and diplomats confirm an internal debate about supplying Ukraine with jet fighters is already underway, pushed by Ukrainian officials with support from hawkish Baltic states.
“The next natural step would be fighters,” a diplomat from a northern European country said.
The debate will likely prove even more contentious than the row over supplying tanks. In Europe, multiple officials and diplomats said their governments no longer consider the idea a non-starter, but that fears of escalation remain high.
Washington has told Kyiv that supplying aircraft is a “no-go, for the moment,” the diplomat quoted above said, but added: “There’s a red line there — but last summer we had a red line on the HIMARS [multiple rocket launchers], and that moved. Then it was battle tanks, and that’s moving.”
A second senior envoy from a European power also stressed the speed at which the supply of Western weaponry is escalating. “Fighters are completely unconceivable today,” they said, “but we might have this discussion in two, three weeks.”
Defense ministers from Ukraine’s allies are due to hold a further summit next month at the U.S. military base of Ramstein, in southwest Germany, where aviation and air support are expected to be a key focus.
Dutch Foreign Affairs Minister Wopke Hoekstra told the Dutch parliament last week that his Cabinet would look at supplying F-16 fighter jets, if Kyiv requests them. “We are open-minded, there are no taboos,” he said.
Other senior politicians are significantly less gung-ho. German Chancellor Olaf Scholz ruled out fighter jet deliveries Wednesday, citing the need to prevent further military escalation.
“There will be no fighter jet deliveries to Ukraine,” he said. “This was made clear very early, including from [the] U.S. president.”
Some officials believe next month’s discussion at Ramstein will therefore be more focused on thrashing out a contingency plan, in case jet fighters are urgently needed at some future point, rather than on striking a deal on near-term deliveries.
Ukraine’s European allies foresee a conflict that could last three to five more years, or longer, and there are concerns the West is close to the limit of what can be provided without triggering an extreme response from Moscow.
Early last year Western allies agreed an “unwritten policy” not to supply Ukraine with a fully comprehensive package of weapons immediately after the invasion, out of fear “we would trigger a big response from Russia,” a third senior diplomat from another European government said.
“Many countries in the West think that if we were to supply Ukraine with all the hardware they asked us [for] in the first phase of the war, there would be a strong Russian reaction, including nuclear. You may call this a process of getting [Putin] accustomed,” the diplomat said.
The strategy has been a slow but steadily upward trend in Western support, from anti-tank Javelins and portable air-defense systems such as Stingers, to HIMARS, and more recently surface-to-air Patriot missiles, tanks and armored vehicles.
The delivery of aircraft is therefore “only a matter of when,” the same diplomat predicted.
quote:
European diplomats agree the West will first want to exhaust all other options for air support, including more attack drones and possibly long-range missiles. Washington also recently approved a consignment of Cold War-era Zuni unguided rockets that the Ukrainian army could launch from its Soviet-era MiG planes.
But these envoys also pointed to recent U.S. decisions as evidence that Washington is preparing for a discussion on aircraft.
In July, the U.S. House of Representatives approved $100 million for training Ukrainian pilots to fly U.S. fighter jets, and in October Ukraine announced a group of several dozen pilots had been selected for training on Western fighter jets.
quote:
Yuriy Sak, an adviser to Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov, said Kyiv’s priority after tanks is to secure jet aircraft and that its allies’ “excuses” are not insurmountable. He is convinced the West is now persuaded of the need to carefully but consistently increase the sophistication of its military donations.
He said the Ukrainian air forces have set their eyes on American F-16 and F-15 aircraft, but are open to others too. The majority of the F-15s and F-16s owned by the U.S. are deployed in other regions, including the Indo-Pacific.
“There are almost 50 countries which are currently using F-15s,” Sak said. “I don’t believe for a second that Ukraine doesn’t deserve combat aircraft.”
Sending aircraft would be a serious logistical undertaking for Ukraine’s allies, however.
F-15s and F-16s require long, high-quality runways, which Ukraine lacks. Experts say it would be easy for Russia to spot any attempt to build operational bases, and strike them.
American F-18 fighters or Swedish-made Gripens would be more appropriate, said Justin Bronk, senior research fellow for airpower at the British think tank RUSI, as they can take off from shorter landing strips and require less maintenance. But both jets are in relatively short supply.
Swedish Defense Minister Pål Jonson told POLITICO Wednesday that Sweden has “no immediate plans to send the Gripen to Ukraine.”
Other combat jets, such as French-made Rafales, may require significant numbers of Western civilians on the ground in Ukraine to repair the aircraft and prepare them for flights. These people would automatically become targets for Russian attacks.
But asked if donating jets would constitute an escalation, a French government official pointed out that Ukraine has already received “super violent” weapons from the West, such as Caesar canons.
“We say everything we send must be for defensive purposes — but once the equipment has been delivered, it’s in their hands,” the official said. “The argument [that you would need NATO officers in Ukraine] was the same for the Patriots. We still sent them.”
Posted on 1/26/23 at 7:45 pm to tigeraddict
LINK
quote:
The Koran burning protest that infuriated Turkey and derailed Sweden’s NATO application was organised by Russia.
Here’s how…
The protest was conducted by far right Danish politician Rasmus Paludan.
But, curiously, he said that his action was the idea of "some Swedes who would like me to burn a Koran in front of the Turkish embassy".
Well, here’s a clue as to who he’s talking about.
According to Swedish media, the protest permit was paid for by Chang Frick, a “journalist” with an interesting background we should explore.
Chang Frick is a Putin supporter who worked for RT, has made multiple trips to Moscow, and set up his own “alternative” Swedish news site, Nyheter Idag.
Chang Frick appears in this 2019 investigation by the New York Times about how Russia was working to polarise Swedish society by staging provocations while also supporting the growth of far right media outlets that amplify them, like Frick’s Nyheter Idag.
Frick said another alternative Swedish news site, Exakt24, told him about the Danish politician’s plans and mentioned that he needed help to pay the fee because he couldn’t transfer the money to Sweden in time.
So, Frick says, he paid it in order to support free expression.
But, when Exakt24 was approached for comment, they told a different story.
It was Frick who initially contacted them and said he wanted to find someone who’d burn the Koran - for which he’d offer to cover expenses. They recommended Paludan.
Sweden’s entry to NATO would have hugely positive security benefits for Europe & the world - especially in the Baltics. This incident played a key role in its attempted sabotage.
Yet the connections to Russia are barely covered outside of Swedish media.
Yet this incident was initiated, facilitated, covered and amplified by a “journalist” with Kremlin connections, Kremlin financing, and Kremlin sympathies who has long worked within a much larger Kremlin plot to polarise Swedish society.
Of course, the Danish politician does this stuff already. And there were already tricky issues to resolve between Sweden & Turkey, in addition to cultural divisions relating to free expression.
But these are resolvable.
The goal of Kremlin propaganda is to prise open divisions among its adversaries & polarise democratic societies, including by initiating provocations and amplifying fringe people as if they are important mainstream voices.
It’s why many of the Westerners who play their roles within this machine are just such mediocre individuals. They can’t make it on their own merits in politics or media in a free society so they’re propped up and amplified by the Kremlin.
The same pattern is being constantly repeated across Europe and around the world in order to support Kremlin narratives. This is just one of the most consequential. We should never have let it go this far.
It’s still not clear what outcome will be reached for Sweden’s NATO application. But if protestors in Turkey really wanted to stick it to the people who burnt the Koran, they should support the application.
Posted on 1/26/23 at 7:57 pm to GOP_Tiger
If it weren’t for the manpads and S-300 missiles that would shoot them out of the sky pretty easily, the A-10 would be the perfect plane for Ukraine to get. Could probably kill 30-40 tanks in one sortie given how inept the Russians are.
This post was edited on 1/26/23 at 7:58 pm
Posted on 1/26/23 at 8:07 pm to GeneralLee
quote:
Could probably kill 30-40 tanks in one sortie given how inept the Russians are.
I think an A-10 would go Winchester long before it could kill 30 tanks. That said if they had air superiority in Ukraine it would be a shooting gallery for Warthogs and every other offensive aircraft.
Posted on 1/26/23 at 8:10 pm to GOP_Tiger
I just feel like they are going to do anything and everything but aircraft. Maybe something changes in the next months but I would be surprised. Russia supplied both North Korea and Vietnam with aircraft to kill Americans with in proxy wars with the west so why can’t we do the same?
This post was edited on 1/26/23 at 11:53 pm
Posted on 1/26/23 at 8:11 pm to GeneralLee
A-10's were designed to defend a tank charge through the Fulda Gap and built to survive long enough to kill tanks.
Posted on 1/26/23 at 8:23 pm to GOP_Tiger
Good article.
That quote though just reiterates for me that man’s greatest gift is rationalizing any action as being strategic and for the greater good. I don’t buy that spin at all. The west was forced to again stare into the abyss of a 20th century land war in Europe by Putin, and its taken a minute for the west to find its footing on how to proceed.
quote:
“Many countries in the West think that if we were to supply Ukraine with all the hardware they asked us [for] in the first phase of the war, there would be a strong Russian reaction, including nuclear. You may call this a process of getting [Putin] accustomed,” the diplomat said.
That quote though just reiterates for me that man’s greatest gift is rationalizing any action as being strategic and for the greater good. I don’t buy that spin at all. The west was forced to again stare into the abyss of a 20th century land war in Europe by Putin, and its taken a minute for the west to find its footing on how to proceed.
Posted on 1/26/23 at 8:31 pm to LSUPilot07
quote:
I just feel like they are going to do anything and everything but aircraft.
My question for the fast mover jockeys is what else besides fighter aircraft will Ukraine need to properly field them. I am not talking about groundcrew/airfields I am talking about things like EW etc.
Posted on 1/26/23 at 8:38 pm to ned nederlander
Der spiegel poll shows only 33% of east Germany approved of sending tanks to Ukraine. Those poor East Germans. 1933-1989 is a heck of a long time to be under continuous Nazi/Soviet control and propaganda.
Posted on 1/26/23 at 9:24 pm to LSUPilot07
The nations in the Tallinn group aren't messing around. Everyone had to depend on the German decision for the Leopards, but that will not be the case with aircraft.
The Dutch have already signaled a readiness to send F-16s, and I don't think that the US will hold up on that too long.
On Twitter, I am seeing a fair amount of discussion about the UK's 30 Eurofighter Typhoons from Tranche 1. The UK is planning to retire these planes by 2025, according to Jane's, even though they have over half of their airframe hours remaining.
Jane's
Here's an article about why the Brits were going to retire these very capable planes.
No one in the UK can argue that the RAF needs these planes and they shouldn't go to Ukraine, as the RAF is already getting rid of them.
The Dutch have already signaled a readiness to send F-16s, and I don't think that the US will hold up on that too long.
On Twitter, I am seeing a fair amount of discussion about the UK's 30 Eurofighter Typhoons from Tranche 1. The UK is planning to retire these planes by 2025, according to Jane's, even though they have over half of their airframe hours remaining.
Jane's
Here's an article about why the Brits were going to retire these very capable planes.
No one in the UK can argue that the RAF needs these planes and they shouldn't go to Ukraine, as the RAF is already getting rid of them.
Posted on 1/26/23 at 9:26 pm to StormyMcMan
quote:
The goal of Kremlin propaganda is to prise open divisions among its adversaries & polarise democratic societies, including by initiating provocations and amplifying fringe people as if they are important mainstream voices.
That's a good article, thanks for posting.
It seems like sowing discord among its enemies is the one thing the Russians do well.
Posted on 1/26/23 at 10:31 pm to Mr Happy
quote:
That's a good article, thanks for posting.
It seems like sowing discord among its enemies is the one thing the Russians do well.
They love their malcontents who are usually far right or far left which can be seen clearly regarding Ukraine.
Posted on 1/26/23 at 10:44 pm to CitizenK
The far left sees Russia as the keeper of the Bolshevik legacy. At the very same time, the far right sees Russia a last bastion of traditional values in the face of a globalist conspiracy. And of course some are simply in it for the money or status (I'm looking at you, Tucker). As inept as Russians are on the battlefield, they're very good at identifying susceptible factions in the west and cajoling or suborning them.
Posted on 1/26/23 at 10:48 pm to Jim Rockford
I’m flirting with the other end of the spectrum, that none of them really do know what they want or certainly need to do. Shooting from the hip to buy themselves another day, wherein hopefully something comes to them.
Posted on 1/27/23 at 2:39 am to RLDSC FAN
President's Office: Poland to deliver 60 PT-91 Twardy tanks to Ukraine
by The Kyiv Independent news desk
January 27, 2023 10:28 am
Poland will deliver 60 locally-made 60 PT-91 Twardy tanks to Ukraine, Ukrainian presidential office head Andrii Yermak wrote on Telegram on Jan. 27.
The tanks will be delivered on top of the fourteen German-built Leopard 2 tanks that Warsaw pledged to Ukraine on Jan. 11, the transfer of which was only recently officially approved by Berlin.
The PT-91 Twardy is a main battle tank based on the design of the Soviet-built T-72, the primary tank model operated by both sides in Russia's war against Ukraine.
Unlike other upgraded T-72 models, the Twardy was built from scratch in Poland with domestically produced parts between 1995-2002. Improvements over the T-72 design include better reactive armor, an improved autoloader, and a newly designed fire control system.
by The Kyiv Independent news desk
January 27, 2023 10:28 am
Poland will deliver 60 locally-made 60 PT-91 Twardy tanks to Ukraine, Ukrainian presidential office head Andrii Yermak wrote on Telegram on Jan. 27.
The tanks will be delivered on top of the fourteen German-built Leopard 2 tanks that Warsaw pledged to Ukraine on Jan. 11, the transfer of which was only recently officially approved by Berlin.
The PT-91 Twardy is a main battle tank based on the design of the Soviet-built T-72, the primary tank model operated by both sides in Russia's war against Ukraine.
Unlike other upgraded T-72 models, the Twardy was built from scratch in Poland with domestically produced parts between 1995-2002. Improvements over the T-72 design include better reactive armor, an improved autoloader, and a newly designed fire control system.
Posted on 1/27/23 at 3:11 am to Jim Rockford
It's an old form of warfare that the Russians, and in all honesty most countries, know well. However its packaging via social media in the digital information age means they can reach receptive audiences to amplify their message quickly and have it propagated within hours if it gets picked up.
The last 15 years has seen it grow markedly, to the point that you can see the same comments almost word for word that prey on peoples dissatisfaction on websites regardless of political leaning and country of residence and invariably daisy chains them onto more extreme ones.
Edit: Clarity
The last 15 years has seen it grow markedly, to the point that you can see the same comments almost word for word that prey on peoples dissatisfaction on websites regardless of political leaning and country of residence and invariably daisy chains them onto more extreme ones.
Edit: Clarity
This post was edited on 1/27/23 at 3:14 am
Posted on 1/27/23 at 6:34 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
The far left sees Russia as the keeper of the Bolshevik legacy. At the very same time, the far right sees Russia a last bastion of traditional values in the face of a globalist conspiracy. And of course some are simply in it for the money or status (I'm looking at you, Tucker). As inept as Russians are on the battlefield, they're very good at identifying susceptible factions in the west and cajoling or suborning them.
That tv show “The Americans” was about undercover KGB spies posing as ordinary Americans, living their lives, studying American culture. Their strategy has been to consistently study the west for weak links in the fabric of society. Fractures and divisions on abortion, race baiting, MAGA, immigrants, these are all threads to pull on to unravel the quilt.
Now they use thousands of bots sitting in troll farms to try to do the work of stirring up doubt and mistrust anonymously. We saw this evidenced by the wild conspiracy theories and faux outrage to get unsuspecting Americans paranoid during election season.
Posted on 1/27/23 at 6:40 am to Jim Rockford
Jan 26 ISW Update
quote:
Russian forces launched another massive series of missile and drone strikes across Ukraine on January 26. Ukrainian Commander-in-Chief General Valery Zaluzhnyi stated that Russian forces launched 55 air- and sea-based missiles, including Kh-101, Kh-555, Kh-47, and Kh-95 Kalibr and Kinzhal missiles at Ukraine from Tu-95, Su-35, and MiG-31K aircraft from the waters of the Black Sea.[1] Ukrainian air defense shot down 47 of the 55 missiles and all 24 Shahed 136 and 131 drones.[2] Several missiles struck critical infrastructure in Vinnytsia and Odesa oblasts.[3] Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov notably reported that Russian forces had 90 Iranian-made drones remaining as of January 7.[4] Russian forces have enough drones for only a few more large-scale strikes unless they have received or will soon receive a new shipment of drones from Iran.
quote:
A recent altercation between Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin and former Russian officer Igor Girkin is exposing a new domain for competition among Russian nationalist groups for political influence in Russia. Girkin accused Prigozhin on January 25 of deliberately misconstruing his criticism of Prigozhin’s political aspirations and exploitation of the information space as an attack on Wagner forces fighting in Ukraine.[6] Girkin claimed that Wagner-affiliated outlet RiaFan’s interview with an unnamed Wagner commander who blamed Girkin for abandoning positions in Donbas in 2014 was an effort to anonymously discredit him.[7] Girkin also accused Prigozhin of continuing to commit Wagner forces to support operations in Syria and African countries instead of deploying his mercenaries to win the war in Ukraine.
Prigozhin replied that he does not have political ambitions and stated that his team attempted to bribe Girkin in an effort to silence his criticism of Wagner forces which could have led to the imprisonment of his fighters for illegal mercenary activity.[8] Prigozhin also made a point of exaggerating his authority by claiming that he cannot withdraw Wagner from Africa because he “made a promise to several presidents” that he will “defend them,” claimed that Wagner “de-facto” won the Syrian war, and noted that Wagner was kicked out of Donbas in 2015.[9] Prigozhin reiterated that he founded, controls, and sponsors Wagner and sarcastically invited Girkin to join one of Wagner’s assault units in occupied Luhansk Oblast, which Girkin stated he would do if Prigozhin sent him a serious invitation.[10] Prigozhin further demeaned Girkin by stating that Wagner does not send out invitations and stated that Girkin would not be effective on the frontlines because he is only interested in promoting himself for financial benefit.
quote:
Prigozhin and Girkin – both critics of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s conduct of the war – are likely competing for influence and patronage among pro-war politicians disillusioned with the progress of the war. ISW assessed on October 4 that the Russian nationalists are split among three distinct groups that pursue different objectives while unilaterally criticizing the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD): Russian or proxy veterans, nationalists with their own private forces, and Russian milbloggers and war correspondents.[12] Girkin represents the veteran faction due to his connections with veteran organizations such as the All-Russian Officers Assembly, while Prigozhin is a self-proclaimed nationalist with access to a parallel military structure.
quote:
Prigozhin’s attack on Girkin may benefit Putin, however. Prigozhin is very prominent in the Russian information space, and many milbloggers accused Girkin of lacking combat experience and cowardice in response to this exchange.
quote:
Prigozhin is likely attempting to maximize his influence to avoid Girkin’s fate. The Kremlin had seemingly rid itself of Girkin after his militants retreated from Slovyansk and following his involvement in the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 in July 2014.[18] Girkin was removed from the position of Minister of Defense of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) in August 2014 and has not resurrected his influence within the Kremlin since then
quote:
Russian President Vladimir Putin continued his campaign against critical and opposition voices by cracking down on several major opposition media outlets while continuing to platform highly critical Russian milbloggers. Putin signed a law on January 25 designating several major Russian language media and investigative outlets, including Meduza, Important Stories, Bellingcat, The Bell, and The Insider as undesirable organizations within Russia, outlawing the publication, distribution, or financial support of the organizations and their publications.[19] The Russian Prosecutor General’s Office claimed that the activities of Meduza and other outlets threaten the “foundations of the constitutional order and security” of Russia.
quote:
The United States Treasury Department announced new sanctions targeting the Wagner Group’s global support network, likely in response to the Wagner Group’s renewed efforts to support its operations outside of Ukraine. The US Department of the Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) designated 16 entities that support the Wagner Group’s military operations as sanctioned entities including a Russian-based technology firm, a Chinese-based satellite imagery company, a Central African Republic security company controlled by the Wagner Group, a United Arab Emirates-based aviation firm, and several Russian nationals.[24] OFAC redesignated the Wagner Group as a significant transnational criminal organization and cited its role in Russian operations in Ukraine and its involvement in serious criminal activity in the Central African Republic and Mali
quote:
Key Takeaways
Russian forces launched another massive series of missile and drone strikes across Ukraine on January 26.
A recent altercation between Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin and former Russian officer Igor Girkin is exposing a new domain for competition among Russian nationalist groups for political influence in Russia against the backdrop of Russian military failures in Ukraine.
Russian President Vladimir Putin continued his campaign against critical and opposition voices by cracking down on several major opposition media outlets.
The United States Treasury Department announced new sanctions targeting the Wagner Group’s global support network, likely in response to the Wagner Group’s renewed efforts to reinvigorate its operations outside of Ukraine.
Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces relaunched counteroffensive operations near Kreminna.
Russian forces continued ground attacks around Bakhmut, on the western outskirts of Donetsk City, and in the Vuhledar area.
Ukrainian officials reported that Russian forces in Zaporizhia Oblast are not conducting offensive operations at the size or scale necessary for a full-scale offensive.
Russian milbloggers claimed that Russian forces continued to conduct limited and localized ground attacks in Zaporizhia Oblast.
The Wagner Group likely experienced significant losses in attritional offensive operations in eastern Ukraine over the past few months.
Russian occupation officials are reportedly continuing to “nationalize” property and close places of worship belonging to the Ukrainian Evangelical Baptist Christian communities in occupied Zaporizhia Oblast in an effort to establish the Kremlin-affiliated Moscow Patriarchate Orthodox Church as the dominant faith in the region.
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