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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 1/22/23 at 1:15 am to
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4669 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 1:15 am to
ISW Update

quote:

The Ukrainian defense of Bakhmut is likely a strategically sound effort despite its costs for Ukraine. While the costs associated with Ukraine’s continued defense of Bakhmut are significant and likely include opportunity costs related to potential Ukrainian counter-offensive operations elsewhere, Ukraine would also have paid a significant price for allowing Russian troops to take Bakhmut easily. Bakhmut itself is not operationally or strategically significant but had Russian troops taken it relatively rapidly and cheaply they could have hoped to expand operations in ways that could have forced Ukraine to construct hasty defensive positions in less favorable terrain

Ukrainian forces have previously employed a similar gradual attrition model to compel Russian operations in certain areas to culminate after months of suffering high personnel and equipment losses in pursuit of marginal tactical gains. Russian troops spent months attempting to grind through effective Ukrainian defenses in Severodonetsk and Lysychansk in the early summer of 2022 and captured Lysychansk only after a controlled Ukrainian withdrawal from the area

The West has contributed to Ukraine’s inability to take advantage of having pinned Russian forces in Bakhmut by slow-rolling or withholding weapons systems and supplies essential for large-scale counteroffensive operations.


quote:

Milblogger discourse surrounding the reported replacement of Colonel General Mikhail Teplinsky with Lieutenant General Oleg Makarevich as commander of the Russian Airborne Forces (VDV) has further emphasized the fracture between two main groups within the Russian MoD—the pro-Gerasimov camp, comprised of those who represent the conventional MoD establishment, and milblogger favorites who are less aligned with the MoD institution. A prominent milblogger announced Teplinsky’s replacement on January 20, triggering a wave of discontent among other milbloggers who voiced their confusion and concern over the situation.[2] Several milbloggers questioned why the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) would replace a well-respected career VDV commander with an “academic” with no combat experience


quote:

The milblogger discourse on this issue additionally offers insight into internal Russian MoD dynamics that may have led to Teplinsky’s removal. The suggestion that Teplinsky was removed following an argument with the General Staff over the use of paratroopers in offensive operations suggests that Teplinsky may have resisted Gerasimov’s desires to use VDV forces to support operations in the Bakhmut area, where Russian offensive operations are largely focused


quote:

Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin has launched a series of information operations aimed at portraying himself as a sacrificial hero of Russia in a crusade against petty and corrupt Russian authorities. Prigozhin’s personal press service on January 21 amplified a letter from the family of a deceased Wagner PMC soldier that contrasted “indifferent” local officials, who did not help with the funeral of their son, with Prigozhin, who listens to their appeals.[8] The letter referred to Prigozhin as “the only Person [sic] who is not indifferent to the fate of the Defender of Russia and his family.”[9] Prigozhin also responded to reports that the Mayoral Office of Kamyshlovsky Raion, Sverdlovsk Oblast denied a Wagner Group fighter a funeral with honors with the claim that “we,” likely showing solidarity with “the common man,” will “deal with this scum” and “pull their children by the nostrils” to participate in the war in Ukraine


quote:

Prigozhin is simultaneously building his domestic power base and reputation as a significant international actor in an effort that is both fueled by and further fuels his information operations against the Russian government. Wagner-affiliated news outlet RIAFAN published staged footage of Wagner forces placing the bodies of supposed Ukrainian soldiers into coffins to send back to Ukraine, and Prigozhin claimed that he advocated sending 20 truckloads of bodies to Ukraine in a likely attempt to humanize Wagner Group and portray Wagner fighters as honorable while portraying Wagner Group as willing and able to act in place of the Russian state to return war dead to the opposing side.[13] Some Russian milbloggers notably amplified this narrative of human and honorable Wagner fighters, while another accused Wagner of staging the whole scene.[14] Prigozhin’s press service challenged US Coordinator for Strategic Communications at the National Security Council John Kirby to name the war crimes Wagner Group has committed in response to the US Treasury designation of Wagner as a transnational criminal organization.[15] Prigozhin even claimed that the US designation of Wagner Group as a transnational criminal organization “finally” indicates that the US and Wagner Group are “colleagues,” implying that the US is also a transnational criminal organization.[16] Wagner Group continues to operate militia training centers in Kursk and Belgorod oblasts in a likely effort to provide military support for regions that the Russian MoD supposedly neglects to defend, although neither faces any risk against which Wagner Group could defend


quote:

The Sun reported that US intelligence estimates total Russian military casualties in Ukraine as 188,000 as of January 20, suggesting a possible 47,000 Russians killed in action in less than a year of fighting.[18]


quote:

Key Takeaways

The Ukrainian defense of Bakhmut is likely a strategically sound effort despite its costs for Ukraine.

Milblogger discourse surrounding the reported replacement of Colonel General Mikhail Teplinsky with Lieutenant General Oleg Makarevich as commander of the Russian Airborne Forces (VDV) has further emphasized the fracture between two main groups within the Russian MoD—the pro-Gerasimov camp, comprised of those who represent the conventional MoD establishment, and milblogger favorites who are less aligned with the MoD institution. The milblogger discourse on this issue additionally offers insight into internal Russian MoD dynamics that may have led to Teplinsky’s removal.

Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin has launched a series of information operations aimed at portraying himself as a sacrificial hero of Russia in a crusade against petty and corrupt Russian authorities.

The Sun reported that US intelligence estimates total Russian military casualties in Ukraine as 188,000 as of January 20, suggesting a possible 47,000 Russians killed in action in less than a year of fighting.

Russian forces conducted a small ground reconnaissance into northeastern Sumy Oblast.

Russian forces continued limited ground attacks to regain lost positions along the Svatove-Kreminna line.

Russian forces continued to conduct ground attacks around Bakhmut and west of Donetsk City. Russian forces are likely making incremental gains around Bakhmut.

Available open-source evidence as of January 21 indicates that Zaporizhia Oblast Russian occupation official Vladimir Rogov’s January 20 claims of a major territorial capture are likely part of a Russian information operation.

Complaints from Russian milbloggers indicate that Russian forces continue to rely on cell phones and non-secure civilian technologies for core military functions – serious breaches of operational security (OPSEC).
Posted by OutsideObserver
Oceania.
Member since Dec 2022
784 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 1:35 am to
I'm not sure that BKR (makes me think of hamburgers every time I read it) and his ilk are representative of the average Russian, online discussion and information having become so polarised (and abused) since the explosion of in your hand social media.

Certainly I agree that there appears to be a considerable number who are in line with that thinking, but more so I view it as Russians highly stoic life outlook being abused by Putin and the oligarchy to maneuver them into this war.

Not that I think ignorance or apathy is an excuse, I do think context is important from a historical perspective so lessons can, hopefully, be learned.

If Ukraine does succeed in defeating Russia to the point that it cannot be viewed as anything else by them it could well result in that long hard stare into a mirror.
Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
4391 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 5:27 am to
These ISW updates are getting better and better.

Meanwhile, back in Fantasie Land, the German government has now counted their Leopard tanks.



Was ist das??? In ONE Day?

Sehr gut Herr Scholz, that was an amazing effort. So the Bundeswehr now reports that it has a total of 312 Leopard 2 tanks. However, 99 of them were under maintenance as of May 2022, and one tank has already been decommissioned. 'May 2022'... yeah, right on schedule for the SPD.

Not disgusted yet? The Germans now report that 19 training versions 'may' be sent to uh, well, sent. Maybe to uh, you know, that country over to the east. Now, what's for lunch. All that work has made us hungry.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20974 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 6:48 am to
This is an interesting line of thinking, in a German media outlet, about another possible reason that Germany might not want Leopards to go to Ukraine:

quote:

It is this confidence card that the US is now playing on in the Ukraine war.

In the background, they offer used tanks from their own stock as a replacement and a long-term industrial partnership to any country that could supply Leopard 2 to Ukraine. This is what is reported in German industrial circles. Any country that responds to the American offer is lost to the German tank industry. And with every country that loses German industry, Berlin's political influence on its allies in NATO and the EU dwindles.




The piece also points out that Germany has now had a year to ramp up its defense industry production, and it has not done so.

I should add that the article, of course, is basically reporting rumors.

LINK
This post was edited on 1/22/23 at 6:56 am
Posted by Coeur du Tigre
It was just outside of Barstow...
Member since Nov 2008
4391 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 7:15 am to
quote:

In the background, they offer used tanks from their own stock as a replacement and a long-term industrial partnership to any country that could supply Leopard 2 to Ukraine. This is what is reported in German industrial circles. Any country that responds to the American offer is lost to the German tank industry. And with every country that loses German industry, Berlin's political influence on its allies in NATO and the EU dwindles.

Yes, I think the Swiss are beginning to see what the Germans can't. What has killed the German tank industry is the German government. The "you pay us for the tanks but you must have our permission to sell / donate them" is the kind of classic paternalism that makes the Germans hated in Europe. And under the circumstances of what is happening in Ukraine, it is intolerable.

The US didn't start this war and is giving the Germans every chance to do the right thing. But at this point, there will be a lot of Abrams tanks in NATO countries in the future. With maintenance, support and training. And the Germans can only blame themselves. Or Scholz...
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 7:15 am to
quote:

In the background, they offer used tanks from their own stock as a replacement and a long-term industrial partnership to any country that could supply Leopard 2 to Ukraine. This is what is reported in German industrial circles. Any country that responds to the American offer is lost to the German tank industry. And with every country that loses German industry, Berlin's political influence on its allies in NATO and the EU dwindles.


If Germany was so concerned about this maybe they should have been producing more than 20 tanks a year
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5654 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 7:26 am to
British Defence Intelligence
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 22 January 2023
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE

On 17 January 2023, Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu announced plans for major changes to the structure of the armed forces, to be implemented between 2023 and 2026. This included an increase to 1.5 million personnel - an 11% increase on top of the previously announced expansion to 1.35 million.

Shoigu also announced the re-establishment of Moscow and Leningrad military districts, a partial return to the Soviet era organisation of forces in Western Russia. A new army corps is to be established in Karelia, near the Finnish border.

Shoigu's plans signal that the Russian leadership highly likely assesses that an enhanced conventional military threat will endure for many years beyond the current Ukraine war. However, Russia will highly likely struggle to staff and equip the planned expansion.
Posted by LSUCanFAN
In the past
Member since Jan 2009
28100 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 7:29 am to
I was just coming here to talk about this, Germany if anyone cares to remember has played a outsized behind the scenes role in this war providing intelligence, communications and materials support for Ukraine and to her allies. There is an odd mix of allegiances sentiment that is often in competition in Germany. Then there is the massive slow drip Russian misinformation/wedge divisions stuff that has been in place since 1999. There is also a heady mix of bribery and compromat that Russia has on many D. politicians. There are estimates among folks I speak to that 1/15 in previous govt were touched in some way by Russia. Russia left behind loyalists after reunification and have preached moderation but really have been securing Russias interests with Europes top dog. Smaller scale stuff has been going on in France but they were never divided down the middle the way Germany was for 40 years. There are pressure points from other nations that can mitigate the rot but you won’t be able to cut it out completely.
Bottom line Germany will cave on the tanks, they will be protected and insulated where needs be and Ukraine will get their training and materials JIT for a spring offensive. What’s interesting is the fractures between Britain Baltics and former Stans/eastern bloc and Germany/France and who gives a frick about Hungary. This was and has been a massive wish of Putin for decades. Normal Magyars have fricking hated Russia for 100s of years but Russia has been doing work there financially/compromat since end of Cold War and especially with Orban.
Only one thing EU NATO sooner or later is going to put the bite on Hungary. There is talk of marginalization and further talk of expelling them if they don’t get in line. They will be replaced by more “cohesive nations” and financially if they are cut off it will have catastrophic consequences. There is some significance to WG being declared criminal organization actually. Time is going to come where Prigo will be asked to step up and end stuff. At least that’s the speculation, if he wants rehabilitation and a gradual grudging seat at some tables he’s going to have to
Sacrifice some folks. There’s also a decent chance he won’t survive another 4 months and that will be as a result of intelligence in part provided by Germany. Supposedly he’s quite easily tracked.
This post was edited on 1/22/23 at 7:33 am
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20974 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 7:58 am to
quote:

The Ukrainian defense of Bakhmut is likely a strategically sound effort despite its costs for Ukraine. While the costs associated with Ukraine’s continued defense of Bakhmut are significant and likely include opportunity costs related to potential Ukrainian counter-offensive operations elsewhere, Ukraine would also have paid a significant price for allowing Russian troops to take Bakhmut easily. Bakhmut itself is not operationally or strategically significant but had Russian troops taken it relatively rapidly and cheaply they could have hoped to expand operations in ways that could have forced Ukraine to construct hasty defensive positions in less favorable terrain

Ukrainian forces have previously employed a similar gradual attrition model to compel Russian operations in certain areas to culminate after months of suffering high personnel and equipment losses in pursuit of marginal tactical gains. Russian troops spent months attempting to grind through effective Ukrainian defenses in Severodonetsk and Lysychansk in the early summer of 2022 and captured Lysychansk only after a controlled Ukrainian withdrawal from the area


BKR made an alter and returned to us because he is gleeful and thinks the Russian capture of Bakhmut is imminent.

Of course, BKR's skills as a military analyst might be questioned: he swore up and down that Russia would never leave Kherson, then he said that Russia would hold Lyman, etc. But Russia has certainly made some progress around Bakhmut. Let's talk about it.

Illia Ponomarenko has an artile in the Kyiv Independent today pointing out that Bakhmut has three main roads that Ukraine has been using to supply the town. The loss of Soledar north of Bakhmut cuts off two of the routes, and the loss of Klishchiivka south of the city endangers the third.

If Russia is able to push west from Klishchiivka, they would put that remaining route under fire control, and then Ukraine would likely withdraw from Bakhmut.

Of course, as ISW points out, Bakhmut is not strategically significant. A Russian victory there would have far less strategic importance than the upcoming Ukrainian capture of Kreminna (which I'll discuss in another post).

It's important to keep in mind that Russia has been focused on capturing territory, while Ukraine is still primarily focused on destroying the Russian military. Sometimes both of these happen at the same time.

Back in the summer, Russia fired 60,000 artillery shells per day to take Popasna, Severodonetsk, and Lysychansk in the Donbas ... but now they have exhausted their ammunition stocks. So, to keep conquering territory around Bakhmut, they are launching waves of poorly supported infantry, and losing many thousands of troops as a result. I thought this quote about the frontline in Bakhmut (in Ponomarenko's story) was remarkable:

quote:

"Problem: the Russians are coming in such numbers and so often that all units ended the day critically short on artillery and mortar ammunition. By the evening, Ukrainians were actually down to mowing down the assaulting Russians by machine guns alone."


One can certainly read that as a story about Ukrainian logistical challenges, but it's also a story about how the "human wave" operations are crippling any Russian hopes of holding on to their captured territories in the long term.

Western estimates are that Wagner suffered 14,000 casualties in the last month to take Soledar, out of a total Wagner force of 50,000 (and remember that Wagner also has forces in Syria and Africa). Prigozhin can make another tour of Russian prisons, but he won't get a fraction of the number of recruits that he got the first time. Russian prisoners are now largely a spent resource.

Russia will soon do another major round of mobilization -- they have to, if they are going to replace their men. The first mobilization was challenging for Russia, but they made it work, and a lot of the callups were for reservists and those with prior military experience. This next round will be much, much harder, and it will deal a severe blow to the Russian economy, as many essential workers who were exempted in the first round will have to be called up.

All that said, I don't think that Russia is going to give BKR an orgasm by capturing Bakhmut anytime soon. As Ponomarenko writes:
quote:

The situation in Bakhmut, which became known as the Ukrainian fortress city, has become even more complicated — but it is still not critical.


Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20974 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 8:17 am to
Suriyak is a pro-Russian account, though basically honest. He has a new report that shows how tenuous Russian control of Kreminna has become:
quote:

on Luhansk front #UkrainianArmy recaptured new positions at the northeastern outskirts of Bilohorivka/??????????? town during the last two days.



This is just south of Kreminna.

As this Twitter account points out, Ukrainian advances north here on both banks of the Siverskyi Donets River put Russian forces in the area in a bad position.

Ukraine has also recently advanced north of Kreminna, threatening to cut the city off.

In contrast to Bakhmut, Kreminna is of tremendous strategic importance, as Ukraine will then be able to threaten Rubizhne, Lysychansk, and Severodonetsk, or (after taking Svatove), they could push east towards Starobilsk.
Posted by Obtuse1
Westside Bodymore Yo
Member since Sep 2016
30512 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 8:31 am to
quote:

LOL you are a child - you try to revolve my arguments at sources back to me, being blind to those who matter that voted for a new republic. Maybe I will wake up and devote energy to showing you truth in the morning, maybe not. Either case, put your thinking cap on.


Calling people children and planning to educate them all the while typing sentences like these:

quote:

I am estranged at the lack of thinking the people in this thread can produce....


quote:

You forment against Nazis, but their militia relish it.


My favorite is your use of estranged.



Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15762 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 8:32 am to
So much for natural gas shortages and high prices.

Here in the USA Henry Hub is at $3.275

In Europe you have to go back to Sept 1 of 2021 to get same as today's prices, which have gone up the last few days.
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45567 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 9:56 am to
quote:

The West has contributed to Ukraine’s inability to take advantage of having pinned Russian forces in Bakhmut by slow-rolling or withholding weapons systems and supplies essential for large-scale counteroffensive operations.


I’m glad that the “experts” are finally waking up and realizing what my sauce(s) have been telling me for months.
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45567 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 10:10 am to
quote:

Of the 38,244 Russian convicts that have been recruited to fight in Ukraine by the Wagner Group, 77% or 29,543 have either been killed, captured, or injured by Ukrainian forces.


Holy shite, if those numbers are even close to being accurate then the Russians are going to lose a lot of people in this war. Especially since the videos of the Russian attacks in the Zaporizhzhia oblast show the Russians using the same mass wave attacks that they have used in Bakhmut.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15762 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 10:20 am to
Wow, this explains a heckuva lot. Russia's issues with logistics are compounded by it's "military" structure.

LINK
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20974 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 10:31 am to
quote:

According to the Algerian website MenaDefense, Morocco sent an unknown number of T-72B tanks to Ukraine. The first 20 were shipped last week. In total, the Moroccan army had 148 T-72, 136 T-72B and 12 T-72BK.


LINK
Posted by LSU7096
Member since May 2004
3010 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 10:43 am to
Putin doesn't want Ukraine back, he needs Ukraine back to maintain control of the energy market into Europe. Without control of energy into Europe, he cannot sell energy below production costs to his oligarchs and their population.

One Russia has to sell energy at global market prices inside Russia, the regime falls.

This post was edited on 1/22/23 at 7:13 pm
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45567 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 10:47 am to
quote:

According to the Algerian website MenaDefense, Morocco sent an unknown number of T-72B tanks to Ukraine. The first 20 were shipped last week. In total, the Moroccan army had 148 T-72, 136 T-72B and 12 T-72BK.


Good for Morocco.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15762 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 11:03 am to
Au contrare, Ukraine has lots of tight shale natural gas reserves not yet developed. If Ukraine develops them, Russia's former grip is crushed for decades with less pipeline transport distance, Russia cannot compete with or without repair of Nordstream
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45567 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 11:44 am to
quote:

Putin doesn't want Ukraine back, he need Ukraine back to maintain control of the energy market into Europe.




That is even more true now that the Nord Stream pipeline(s) have been destroyed. Russia is trying to convince Turkey to buy more Russian gas and then turn around and sell the Russian gas to Europe in order to bypass the sanctions. However, if that is as obvious to someone like me I would hope the people in the energy markets and in charge of Europe's energy policy can see that too and not fall for it. Of course even if they fall for it then they would be buying gas from Turkey at market price and Turkey would be buying it from Russia at below market price so Russia would not make much of a profit.

The thing that everyone forget is that if Russia had been able to open Nord Stream 2 it would have been able to supply Europe with natural gas and bypassed Ukraine completely. Ukraine's government would have lost > 30% of its revenue overnight. That would have led to a recession and Russia could have played havoc and had a real chance at getting a Russian friendly president and Rada elected in the Ukrainian elections in 2024. Putin really shite the bed when he decided to invade Ukraine because now it will be many generations before a government friendly to Russia is elected in Ukraine.
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