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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 1/22/23 at 11:55 am to
Posted by LSUPilot07
Member since Feb 2022
8617 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 11:55 am to
Even countries you wouldn’t expect like Morocco are pitching in while Germany does their very best to throw a wrench in shite. I know Ukraine wants and needs western MBTs but this is going to be a slow process obviously so in the meantime I hope they can get more countries with Soviet tanks to deliver to Ukraine in the short term. The U.S. needs to go ahead and get prepared to send Poland 100 or so Abrams so they can hand Ukraine their Leopards. Luckily there are a good number of Abrams in Poland right now.
Posted by ned nederlander
Member since Dec 2012
5910 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 12:07 pm to
quote:

The piece also points out that Germany has now had a year to ramp up its defense industry production, and it has not done so.


Nothing about the German posture on delivering heavy weapons and tanks makes any sense.

1. We are concerned about our own military readiness? You haven’t invested in your military for 20 plus years and have taken no active steps to ramp up military readiness over the last year. Further, the only plausible threat that would require a conventional German military response comes from Russia. If you think there is a chance the Russian military is going to end up on the German border, wouldn’t you want to eliminate this threat while it flounders in Ukraine.

2. Any action on tanks must be unanimous. But not every member of nato and the US is an equal partner. You are the wealthiest member of the EU and control the largest number of readily available tanks on the European continent. This is a transparently bullshite answer as complete unanimity on any issue will never happen.

3. We don’t want to escalate. Nothing, and I mean nothing, escalates this conflict like a successful 2023 Russian offensive campaign in the Ukraine. Game plan that out for about 5 minutes and you should realize what a catastrophe that is for Germany, Europe, and the West.

It is said modern german is built in the pillars of cheap Chinese labor, cheap Russian energy, and US security guarantees. That rings true, and Germany simply seems incapable of leading a coalition towards any cause that isn’t about padding their pocket book. Volkswagen is a prolific cheat of a national company, Deutschebank has never met a dollar it won’t launder or despot it wouldn’t finance, German creditors hammer EU debtors into submission and operate a current union overwhelmingly to their favor. It’s almost like everything they said about the Jews was a projection of their craven national ethos.

I do love their beer and sausages though.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20974 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 12:22 pm to
quote:

The Norwegian Chief of Defence, General Eirik Kristoffersen, gave these casualty estimates on TV2 today, though with caveats:

Russian mil: 180 000 KIA/WIA
Ukrainian mil: 100 000 KIA/WIA
Ukrainian civilian: 30 000 killed


LINK
This post was edited on 1/22/23 at 12:23 pm
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20974 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 1:02 pm to
quote:

Good for Morocco.



I doubt Morocco is just giving them. The US probably promised the Moroccan military some replacement toys.
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45567 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 1:29 pm to
quote:

The piece also points out that Germany has now had a year to ramp up its defense industry production, and it has not done so.


Nothing about the German posture on delivering heavy weapons and tanks makes any sense.


It makes sense if you stop and think about it. The leaders want one thing but the nonpolitical midlevel career bureaucrats who are compromised by Russia are doing everything in their power to delay. You also have to remember that it is hard to fire government employees and pretty much impossible to fire them in the EU. Also the EU has stricter rules regarding austerity than the USA. If Germany commits to spending more on defense they have to cut spending somewhere else. The bureaucrats guard their slice of the budget like crazy which means any plans to increase defense spending are going to face a lot of internal obstacles before it is actually implemented.
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45567 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 1:32 pm to
quote:

The Norwegian Chief of Defence, General Eirik Kristoffersen, gave these casualty estimates on TV2 today, though with caveats:

Russian mil: 180 000 KIA/WIA
Ukrainian mil: 100 000 KIA/WIA
Ukrainian civilian: 30 000 killed


I can believe those numbers but I think the Russian numbers are probably higher.
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 1:46 pm to
quote:

I can believe those numbers but I think the Russian numbers are probably higher.


That would mean over 80% of the initial invasion force has been killed or wounded. That’s unrealistic even we’re being optimistic imo.
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45567 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 1:57 pm to
quote:

That would mean over 80% of the initial invasion force has been killed or wounded. That’s unrealistic even we’re being optimistic imo.




It is not just the initial invasion force. The Russian KIA & WIA count was around 75,000 or so when they started sending recently mobilized troops to Ukraine. The Russians have been conducting human wave attacks on prepared defensive positions and sustaining triple digit casualties every day since mid November.
Posted by klrstix
Shreveport, LA
Member since Oct 2006
3573 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 2:07 pm to
quote:

Are you reading talking points or are you just stupid?




Maybe both..
Posted by ImaObserver
Member since Aug 2019
2503 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 2:07 pm to
quote:

That would mean over 80% of the initial invasion force has been killed or wounded. That’s unrealistic even we’re being optimistic imo.

That would not be too far out of line with the claim below that 77% if the convicts have fallen from the ranks.
LINK

quote:
Mykhailo Podolyak, an advisor to the President’s Office:

Of the 38,244 Russian convicts that have been recruited to fight in Ukraine by the Wagner Group, 77% or 29,543 have either been killed, captured, or injured by Ukrainian forces.
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 2:09 pm to
quote:

It is not just the initial invasion force. The Russian KIA & WIA count was around 75,000 or so when they started sending recently mobilized troops to Ukraine. The Russians have been conducting human wave attacks on prepared defensive positions and sustaining triple digit casualties every day since mid November.


I’m not buying it. Both Ukraine and Russia are probably about even at 100K.
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45567 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 2:14 pm to
quote:

It is not just the initial invasion force. The Russian KIA & WIA count was around 75,000 or so when they started sending recently mobilized troops to Ukraine. The Russians have been conducting human wave attacks on prepared defensive positions and sustaining triple digit casualties every day since mid November.


I’m not buying it. Both Ukraine and Russia are probably about even at 100K.



That is because you are the type SOB who always has a stick up your arse and you would not believe that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west unless you were the first to point it out.
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 2:28 pm to
quote:

That is because you are the type SOB who always has a stick up your arse and you would not believe that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west unless you were the first to point it out.


And you’re the type of guy who’s too emotionally invested in this war to see anything that could possibly be bad for Ukraine. Take a step back and ask yourself why you’re so angry with a stranger on the internet for saying that casualty numbers are probably a bit off. Face it dude, you can’t look at this objectively. You never have and you never will. And that is why your takes are basically useless in this thread. They are emotion based instead of fact and common sense based.
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8170 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 2:29 pm to
Is it possible, yes, is it probably, who knows?

One of the challenges to trying to figure out Russian casualties results from their very fragmented force structure in Ukraine.

You have the Russian Army, two Donbas militias, Wagner, etc... all under different reporting structures which makes estimating total casualties hard.
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 2:36 pm to
quote:

You have the Russian Army, two Donbas militias, Wagner, etc... all under different reporting structures which makes estimating total casualties hard.


And Ukraine doesn’t report their casualties.
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
28324 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 2:38 pm to
quote:

Russian mil: 180 000 KIA/WIA
Ukrainian mil: 100 000 KIA/WIA
Ukrainian civilian: 30 000 killed



Pretty close
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15760 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 2:52 pm to
I buy the Norwegian estimate to be closer to reality than others.

Especially, all of my former active duty USMC friends who came up in Cold War training, have predicted how this would go pretty close. They are well versed in Russia's lack of ability to adjust at the squad, platoon level. They do not have the ability to improvise whether to take advantage of weakness or coming against stronger resistance than planned. Target whoever is in command and the planned action fails as no one else has a clue of what to do.

Russia will not count PMC, DPR/Luhansk casualties or regional volunteer unit from inside Russia as none are regular military

Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45567 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 3:02 pm to
quote:

You have the Russian Army, two Donbas militias, Wagner, etc... all under different reporting structures which makes estimating total casualties hard.


And Ukraine doesn’t report their casualties.


You said that you believed that both sides casualties were in the ballpark of 100,000. The Norwegian estimate for the Ukrainian casualties is around 100,000. The difference between your estimates and the Norwegian estimates are in the estimated Russian casualties. So how does Ukraine not reporting its casualties make you skeptical of the Norwegian estimate of the Russian casualties?
This post was edited on 1/22/23 at 3:45 pm
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45567 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 3:03 pm to
The Polish PM just dick slapped Germany.
This post was edited on 1/22/23 at 5:20 pm
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
28324 posts
Posted on 1/22/23 at 3:10 pm to
quote:

I buy the Norwegian estimate to be closer to reality than others.



There are many satellite capable western countries watching everything. The US wont ever put running numbers out, but occasionally you get an update from the UK, Norway.

Running troop counts, troop movement, unit tracking, unit real time strength, unit real time capability, casualties.
This post was edited on 1/22/23 at 3:13 pm
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