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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 10/10/22 at 8:52 am to StormyMcMan
Posted on 10/10/22 at 8:52 am to StormyMcMan
Yeah I am not a fan of regime change.
If this invasion keeps going poorly, my wishes will be ignored
If this invasion keeps going poorly, my wishes will be ignored
1
Posted on 10/10/22 at 8:53 am to BrianKellyRespecter
Yes it’s a great time for peace but the only peace you want is by Ukraine surrendering their lands to a terrorist invader who you thinks he is Peter the Great when he’s really just a little shithead ex-KGB a-hole with a serious short man complex. All this bloodshed ends today if Putin admits he fricked up and pulls his troops out but something tells me you don’t want or think he should do that. So until that day let the poor Russian bastards being sent to their deaths for no reason other than Putin’s ego hopefully have a quick and easy death.
This post was edited on 10/10/22 at 8:54 am
Posted on 10/10/22 at 8:54 am to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
That’s about as fair of a concession that Ukraine should be held under being that they are the victims of a war of aggression.
Why should one country make any concessions at all simply because another country wants its territory?
If there are large numbers of Ukrainian citizens in the Donbas who want to be Russian then they should move to Russia.
And Crimea, that was just a land grab by Russia because Putin wanted it.
Posted on 10/10/22 at 8:55 am to SDVTiger
quote:
There could also be a peace deal
The best part about Russia's position in this conflict is that it can achieve peace without even having to negotiate with Ukraine. No "deal" is necessary. It can just withdraw its invading and occupying army from Ukrainian soil. Peace achieved. Done.
This post was edited on 10/10/22 at 8:55 am
Posted on 10/10/22 at 8:55 am to BrianKellyRespecter
China is not operating much of its manufacturing at present due extreme covid lockdowns. US companies are pulling out of China, and they invested heavily over the last 2-1/2 decades in their own manufacturing plants, which would have a depreciated book value to close to zero right now.
Posted on 10/10/22 at 8:55 am to StormyMcMan
quote:
This might have worked pre February but too many displaced persons now to make that feasible in my honest opinion.
Sure. I’m not arguing it’s a feasible proposition. Only that, if a “diplomatic solution” is what is being asked for and “diplomatic” means “quid pro quo” in which Ukraine must concede something, a redo of the referenda (under idealistic conditions) should be the only thing Ukraine should have to concede.
Peace conditions such as “Ukraine must stay out of NATO” is all but submitting Ukrainian sovereignty to Moscow and will open them up to future invasions down the road.
Posted on 10/10/22 at 8:56 am to lsu777
So are you going to ignore the celebration of civilians getting bombed? Oh, and Putin is a murderous thug who orders people killed all the time for simply opposing him. Zelensky is defending his country against a foreign invader. You can't see the difference?
Posted on 10/10/22 at 8:56 am to StormyMcMan
quote:
In all honesty, a regime change in Russia has little chance of changing the war IMO namely due to Russia attempting to annex the territory. You'd have to not only have a regime change to one that wants to get out of Ukraine, but then get the population on board to cede back territory. I just don't see that happening shy of a civil war inside of Russia. I hope I'm wrong though.
You are probably correct.
Russia appears to have put themselves in a no win position anyway. The resources they are consuming, the street cred they have lost, and the enemies they have created outweigh anything they may gain eventually.
This post was edited on 10/10/22 at 8:58 am
Posted on 10/10/22 at 8:57 am to lsu777
quote:Probably, but I’m not sure that is a certainty. What if ceding parts of the Donbas and Crimea came with regime change and substantial financial payment by Russia?
ukraine is not going to agree to any terms that do not include going back to the pre-2014 borders
Posted on 10/10/22 at 8:57 am to doubleb
quote:
Putin’s limited invasion was a grade A disaster. He has put himself at risk, and it’s his own doing. If getting rid of him stops the war and if the new regime there is less aggressive that would be great.
If the new regime is more aggressive and goes all in against Ukrsine that wouldn’t be good, but it’s out of our control.
From what I have been reading there are two competing factions. Ultra nationalists (such as the Chechen strongman and the gent who owns the Wagner mercenaries) who say that Russia has to destroy Ukraine at all costs and Oligarchs who would really like for things to go back to the way they were before the war when they were making billions of dollars a year... instead of having billions of dollars of assets seized or frozen.
Its why Russia has been launching frontal assaults in the Bahkmut region, the ultranationalist want to point to that as proof they are fighting hard and winning the day.
Basically one side is saying we can't afford to lose this war and the other is saying we can't afford to keep fighting it. I increasingly think the common Russian citizen is starting to drift more towards the latter viewpoint.
Posted on 10/10/22 at 8:57 am to Chromdome35
quote:Agreed, these missile attacks on civilian targets are the only option that Putin knows. He has used terror against the Russian people for the last twenty-five years. And it's worked. The reason it isn't working now is that he's dealing with Ukrainians. People with agency, people that will up his ante every time and never back down.
The only thing these attacks by Russia accomplish militarily is the further drawdown of Russias already low stocks of weapons and causing terror inside of Ukraine. They don’t do anything to help Russia win the war.
Negotiations...? It's now the law in Ukraine and clear to anyone listening - no negotiations possible unless Putin is out. Really out. Like dead or in a Western prison. We've got a long way to go before we get there, but we'll get there. Any other take on this is uninformed to say the least.
Posted on 10/10/22 at 8:58 am to BrianKellyRespecter
quote:
BrianKellyRespecter
Wanna see a magic trick? I call it…. Presto magico commie swine disappearo
LINK
Posted on 10/10/22 at 8:59 am to Kentucker
quote:
Why should one country make any concessions at all simply because another country wants its territory?
They shouldn’t. I’m not arguing they should.
I’m merely saying that if we’re suggestion a “quid pro quo” agreement, this is by far the only thing that should be on the table. (I see people suggesting Ukraine waiving Russian war reparations as a possible peace condition, but seeing as how the Russians have bombed hospitals and playgrounds, I’d much rather Russians pay back those reparations.)
Posted on 10/10/22 at 8:59 am to AU86
quote:
1. Nuclear threats 2. Hoping Europe will cave in support this winter. Putin has no other option: he has to win or he is finished. If Ukraine can't knock him out, they are going to be fighting this war for years.
Actually, only the Nuke threat. I completely get that supply is diminished and prices are high (3X what they should be so a shitton of profit taking by European companies is happening, but down from 4X a month ago). LNG terminals in the US have not been operating at capacity, despite what known nothing pundits declare. Europe's storage capacity is close to full with forecast to be 25% full in the spring of 2023. Meanwhile no one is talking about Ukraine's natural gas storage which is more than all of Europe and still intact with pipelines to go Westward Ho.
Edit - my error looking at TTF prices which are based on MWh and Henry Hub. There is profit taking among trading companies but it is not close to double.
FTR, Europe's manufacturing was undercut over a decade ago by price of natural gas in the USA being cheaper. Their insistence on complying with Greta's demands (also Russia's covert demands) has made it even worse.
This post was edited on 10/10/22 at 9:15 am
Posted on 10/10/22 at 9:01 am to SDVTiger
quote:
You ppl are lunatics There could also be a peace deal Like the one they already had
Sure, there could be. But what good was the peace deal if it was broken so easily.
Putin and the Russia media have signaled that there is no desire for a peace deal.
And Zelenskyy and the Ukraine side don’t want anything short claiming their occupied territory back.
So that means a peace deal is possible as soon as the Russian military leaves Ukraine lands.
Posted on 10/10/22 at 9:02 am to mmcgrath
quote:
celebration of civilians getting bombed
Liar.
Posted on 10/10/22 at 9:02 am to doubleb
quote:
but it’s out of our control.
Hahaha... this has to be the dumbest thing I have read in a long time. This is all in our control.
Here's an idea. How about we stop sending a hundred billion dollars over to those euro gangsters and let them all sort it out themselves.
Nah, that wouldn't work. Because MIC has to get paid, and corrupt politicians have to launder.
There is no good ending to this conflict. Best we can hope is just to stay the f*ck out of it. It's none of our business. Hell, we can't even manage our own border here.
This post was edited on 10/10/22 at 9:03 am
Posted on 10/10/22 at 9:02 am to AGGIES
quote:
So that means a peace deal is possible as soon as the Russian military leaves Ukraine lands.
Sounds reasonable. Is there any reason why this is not reasonable?
Posted on 10/10/22 at 9:04 am to Klark Kent
quote:You didn't strike anything, I just simply looked at your post history.
hmm, struck a nerve. I didn’t realize trannies fell under the umbrella of “I support the latest thing” for you. If it helps you get your panties out of a knot, I’ll post a black square, the latest LBTQXYZ+ flag, or a Ukraine flag for you sweetheart.
Posted on 10/10/22 at 9:06 am to TBoy
quote:of course it is reasonable…it’s just not a realistic expectation of Putin. It would require both an agreement of what Ukrainian lands are and an acknowledgement of complete defeat. I can’t ever see Putin doing that.
Sounds reasonable. Is there any reason why this is not reasonable?
This post was edited on 10/10/22 at 9:08 am
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