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Started By
Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 6/30/22 at 1:46 pm to ruff fish
Posted on 6/30/22 at 1:46 pm to ruff fish
quote:
In mid-December, the National Security Archives at George Washington University released three dozen declassified documents relating to the German reunification negotiations in 1990.
And yet it was never actually documented and that's the key thing here. Even your source just says "People overheard". Hell even Gorbachev admits the conversation never happened. But that's the thing, people keep saying "It was talked about", but no one can actually prove that it was. And if this was so important to Russia, surely the delegation wouldn't have been so stupid as to not write it down somewhere?
quote:
Ten years later, in an interview with the German newspaper Bild, Gorbachev complained that the West had tricked Moscow. "Many people in the West were secretly rubbing their hands and felt something like a flush of victory -- including those who had promised us: 'We will not move 1 centimeter further east,'" he was quoted as saying.
Gorbachev later appeared to reverse himself, saying the subject of enlargement in fact never came up in 1989 or 1990. "The topic of 'NATO expansion' was never discussed; it was not raised in those years. I am saying this with a full sense of responsibility. Not a single Eastern European country brought up the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact had ceased to exist in 1991," he told the newspaper Kommersant in October 2014.
Gorbachev could not be reached for comment. A spokesman did not immediately return an e-mail.
quote:
So in a referendum, 97% of the population voted for accession.
While this might be the outcome, I whole hardly disagree that this wasn't influenced or honest results. Now doesn't mean a majority would have voted for that, but to act like when this vote was taken that it was without influence is just being naïve at best.
What I will concede to you (and a fact that hasn't really been brought up on this whole thread even by pro-Russia people oddly) is the post USSR vote. Per my understanding, Crimea and Donbass were supposed to have some degree of autonomy from Ukraine and were never given such. Still doesn't give Russia that blessing to invade Ukraine.
I honestly believe if Russia would have just stuck to the Donbas, no one would be supporting the war effort. It's because Russia tried to take over the whole country we find ourselves where we are.
Posted on 6/30/22 at 1:47 pm to ruff fish
frick off russian bitch. why dont you start shite with nato if you dislike them so much?
oh thats right, you dont want that smoke becuase it would mean the end of russia in short order. Russia is the equivelant of a 3a JV squad talking shite to the national chmaps hs football team.
oh thats right, you dont want that smoke becuase it would mean the end of russia in short order. Russia is the equivelant of a 3a JV squad talking shite to the national chmaps hs football team.
Posted on 6/30/22 at 1:50 pm to lsu777
quote:
if we wanted war with you, you would know it.
trust me, you dont want the smoke from the red white and blue. even without nukes, moscow would be overrun in a month based on your performance in ukraine.
We already know that you want war with us since 2014. Officials of various levels spoke openly about this yesterday at the NATO summit. Look yourself.
quote:
the problem in russia is you have an elite intellectual class that is aging big time and a huge class of people with an iq of 90 or less. combined iwth corruption adn you have essentially a failed state.
At the beginning it seemed to me that you wrote this about the USA, the kleptocratic Congress and the head of the country who are told where to go, sit down and who to say hello to.
quote:
frick them.
but still not for sending 5billion a month to ukraine. frick that too.
It doesn't depend on me. It's your taxes going down the toilet
Posted on 6/30/22 at 1:57 pm to ruff fish
quote:
Odessa
Is that Odessa or Odesa? I've seen it both ways.
Posted on 6/30/22 at 2:02 pm to StormyMcMan
quote:
And yet it was never actually documented ....
With this I agree. Was not documented.
But such promises were made and that's for sure.
Even your politicians talked about it.
I'm talking about the fact that believing the United States is the same as deceiving yourself.
Posted on 6/30/22 at 2:03 pm to ruff fish
quote:
but still not for sending 5billion a month to ukraine. frick that too.
It doesn't depend on me. It's your taxes going down the toilet
Well, so are yours
quote:From Sept 2021
Russia plans to spend 900 billion rubles ($12.4 billion) over the next three years on financial support in the parts of eastern Ukraine that are held by Russia-backed separatists
Or more recently
quote:
Russia will invest more than two trillion rubles in the economy of the "#Donetsk People's Republic" within two years, reports Meduza.
LINK
So with current FX rates that's roughly $37B USD.
As a percentage of Russia's GDP that's roughly 2.5% when Russia openly admits it's expecting over a 7% GDP contraction this year
US says it will support at $40B USD. That's roughly 0.2% of our GDP.
ETA: Fixed the link
This post was edited on 6/30/22 at 2:07 pm
Posted on 6/30/22 at 2:05 pm to ruff fish
Dudes in my time zone already 0:03
I'm going to sleep, otherwise I'll carry my nose on the table at work.
Anyone who asks me a question I will answer tomorrow
I'm going to sleep, otherwise I'll carry my nose on the table at work.
Anyone who asks me a question I will answer tomorrow
Posted on 6/30/22 at 2:09 pm to lsu777
quote:That sounds like our country.
the problem in russia is you have an elite intellectual class that is aging big time and a huge class of people with an iq of 90 or less. combined iwth corruption adn you have essentially a failed state.
Posted on 6/30/22 at 2:10 pm to ruff fish
quote:
Anyone who asks me a question I will answer tomorrow
Don't you agree free speech is fun?
Posted on 6/30/22 at 2:15 pm to ruff fish
quote:
Even your politicians talked about it.
Even your politicians say it didn't happen.
Kinda of funny that I believe the Russian and you the American right now
Posted on 6/30/22 at 2:15 pm to StormyMcMan
What comrade ruff fish fails to mention:
The NATO-Russia Founding Act of 1997. Yeltsin signed it. Therefore Russia agreed to the Act/Agreement. What does it say?
To achieve the aims of the Act, the two sides made “a shared commitment” to a number of principles. These principles included, “…respect for sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security…” and, “mutual transparency in creating and implementing defence policy and military doctrines,” among others.
What does "their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security" mean? It meant/means that countries could/can choose to join NATO and by signing the Act Russia acknowledged that.
Putin has many times violated this agreement that his country signed. Starting with Georgia in 2008.
Yeltsin might have been a drunk, but he was a hell of alot more honorable, trustworthy and less mafia than the KGB agent.
The NATO-Russia Founding Act of 1997. Yeltsin signed it. Therefore Russia agreed to the Act/Agreement. What does it say?
To achieve the aims of the Act, the two sides made “a shared commitment” to a number of principles. These principles included, “…respect for sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity of all states and their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security…” and, “mutual transparency in creating and implementing defence policy and military doctrines,” among others.
What does "their inherent right to choose the means to ensure their own security" mean? It meant/means that countries could/can choose to join NATO and by signing the Act Russia acknowledged that.
Putin has many times violated this agreement that his country signed. Starting with Georgia in 2008.
Yeltsin might have been a drunk, but he was a hell of alot more honorable, trustworthy and less mafia than the KGB agent.
This post was edited on 6/30/22 at 2:25 pm
Posted on 6/30/22 at 2:31 pm to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
97% of what people. No population agrees on on a referendum at 97% unless they live in a propagandized former communist country.
Also,there was no choice on the ballot to keep the status quo.
A copy of the 16 March ballot paper - released by the Crimean parliament - appears to give voters two choices: to join Russia immediately or gain greater autonomy within Ukraine.
The " greater autonomy within Ukraine " choice is obviously going down the path to the sham autonomous state choice.
Crimea referendum: What does the ballot paper say?
Posted on 6/30/22 at 3:05 pm to jimmy the leg
I have sold some old junk glass lined reactors to one in Texas. They don't care about the glass being shot in their process. I don't know if they use strong acids to concentrate or what, bit it is a rare earth metals mining and processing outfit near Texas Hill Country, Closest city is San Angelo
Posted on 6/30/22 at 3:29 pm to Scruffy
quote:No, no it doesn't
That sounds like our country.
Posted on 6/30/22 at 3:58 pm to Palantir
Anyone justifying Russia in this invasion is just scum
They will spread the kleptocracy to Ukraine and steel the place blind.
They need warm bodies since their race is dying off due to
lack of birthrate and low life expectancy.
They will spread the kleptocracy to Ukraine and steel the place blind.
They need warm bodies since their race is dying off due to
lack of birthrate and low life expectancy.
Posted on 6/30/22 at 4:10 pm to ruff fish
Turkey was just being Turkey, it wanted a deal and got it
Posted on 6/30/22 at 4:17 pm to LSUPilot07
the port is at most 32 feet of draft. That was fine 50 years ago but ships are much larger now for trans ocean voyages. This is not a port for bulk carriers hauling grain but tween decker types for steel coils or small feeder container ships.
Posted on 6/30/22 at 4:19 pm to CitizenK
quote:Erdy wants you to stop talking Turkey with them...
Turkey was just being Turkey, it wanted a deal and got it
Posted on 6/30/22 at 4:37 pm to cypher
Apparently Ukraine has the capability to manufacture their own 155mm self propelled howitzer called the 2S22 Bohdana.
The Armed Forces of Ukraine demonstrated Bohdana self-propelled howitzer firing at the Russian invaders at Zmiyinyi Island
Defense industry of Ukraine
The Armed Forces of Ukraine demonstrated Bohdana self-propelled howitzer firing at the Russian invaders at Zmiyinyi Island
Defense industry of Ukraine
Posted on 6/30/22 at 4:48 pm to soccerfüt
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