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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 5/23/22 at 3:10 pm to Lima Whiskey
Posted on 5/23/22 at 3:10 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
The war is the end result of western expansionism, via NATO.
The Russians warned us that they’re would respond, they saw NATO expansion as an existential threat, and now they’ve responded.
Utter bullshite. So Georgia was the result of western expansion? 2014 was the result of western expansion?
Putin invaded Ukraine for resources and access to the Black Sea, and a desire to return to the glory that he views the old Soviet Union. Nothing more, nothing less. And you're eating up his bullshite excise of "western expansion."
Ukraine has said ever since becoming a sovereign nation again their intent was to integrate with Europe, as Ukrainians see themselves as Europeans. How is it western expansion when the country says right up front they want to be more integrated with Europe?
What fricking right does Putin have keep a sovereign nation aligning with who they wish?
1
Posted on 5/23/22 at 3:17 pm to Centinel
quote:
What fricking right does Putin have keep a sovereign nation aligning with who they wish?
None, in fact they signed an agreement stating as much.
No, this is Putin’s attempt to revive the Soviet Union one slice at a time.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 3:24 pm to Chromdome35
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/29/23 at 7:26 pm
Posted on 5/23/22 at 3:25 pm to Chromdome35
quote:
What is your definition of Ukraine losing?
The destruction of the Ukrainian Army, once done the Russians will be able to annex the territory they want.
The Russians have an overwhelming advantage in artillery and air power. That’s how and why they’re winning.
quote:
If the war were to end with Russia taking the Donbas and keeping the southern shoreline (with the exception of Odesa) would that be a win or a loss for Ukraine?
Minor Russian victory.
quote:
If Russia were to pull back to the pre-February borders (including in the south) would that be a win or loss for Ukraine?
Massive Ukrainian victory
Posted on 5/23/22 at 3:39 pm to Kjnstkmn
Zero Hedge is of Bulgarian origin with Russian influence.
Just credible enough to hook the naive
Just credible enough to hook the naive
Posted on 5/23/22 at 3:39 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
The Russians have an overwhelming advantage in artillery and air power. That’s how and why they’re winning.
I believe this to be the case also, but have not seen evidence of the Massive Russian advantage in the air. Why do you think this is?
Posted on 5/23/22 at 3:42 pm to Lima Whiskey
what are the massive resources? Is it calling up 45 year old men fight? Is it robbing spares off of their thousands of tanks in boneyards, to repair existing tanks?
Why hasn't Russia's air superiority shutdown Ukrainian air assets? You do know that Russia's manufacturing sector sucks donkey balls.
Why hasn't Russia's air superiority shutdown Ukrainian air assets? You do know that Russia's manufacturing sector sucks donkey balls.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 3:44 pm to Chromdome35
quote:
I'm not trying to argue with him, I'm trying to understand his point of view on what defines winning and losing in this war.
He is a die hard communist. His views are whatever Pravda tells hims. Basically the only way LW or someone like him will ever admit that Russia is losing the war will be if Ukrainian troops invade Moscow and parade in front of Red Square with Putin's body hanging from a lamp post.
This post was edited on 5/23/22 at 4:55 pm
Posted on 5/23/22 at 3:44 pm to CitizenK
quote:
Zero Hedge is of Bulgarian origin with Russian influence.
Just credible enough to hook the naive
To me, all credibility was lost once NATOstan and UkroNazistan were mentioned. You can't pretend to be unbiased when you're using cutesy derogatory nicknames for people you don't like/disagree with
Posted on 5/23/22 at 3:48 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
What is your definition of Ukraine losing?
The destruction of the Ukrainian Army, once done the Russians will be able to annex the territory they want.
The Russians have an overwhelming advantage in artillery and air power. That’s how and why they’re winning.
quote:
If the war were to end with Russia taking the Donbas and keeping the southern shoreline (with the exception of Odesa) would that be a win or a loss for Ukraine?
Minor Russian victory.
quote:
If Russia were to pull back to the pre-February borders (including in the south) would that be a win or loss for Ukraine?
Massive Ukrainian victory
What does a minor Ukrainian victory look like? What about a draw?
Posted on 5/23/22 at 3:49 pm to WeeWee
quote:
What does a minor Ukrainian victory look like? What about a draw?
Prolonged stalemate leading to Putin's ouster and an official ceasefire like the one in Korea
Posted on 5/23/22 at 3:55 pm to Lima Whiskey
Thank you, Lima. I appreciate your response.
This thread has made me think about my biases and how I view and interact with others with whom I might not agree.
In regards to this war, I think it's pretty clear that I want Ukraine to win, simply because I think Russia is in the wrong and has committed heinous crimes against the Ukrainian population. When it comes to the war, I don't really care about Ukraine being corrupt, the ineptness & corruption of the Biden administration, or the Trump/Putin/Russia Gate, etc.. dimension to this.
This thread has made me think about my biases and how I view and interact with others with whom I might not agree.
In regards to this war, I think it's pretty clear that I want Ukraine to win, simply because I think Russia is in the wrong and has committed heinous crimes against the Ukrainian population. When it comes to the war, I don't really care about Ukraine being corrupt, the ineptness & corruption of the Biden administration, or the Trump/Putin/Russia Gate, etc.. dimension to this.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 3:56 pm to Lima Whiskey
Russia doesn’t dictate terms to us, we dictate terms to them. I’m sorry that you’re a fan of a communist whack job but you’re acting like this all the fault of the west. We didn’t roll into another country with tanks and level cities with artillery your comrade Putin did. God forbid we intervene and send aid to fight the Russian fricks off but guess what? It’s not just us. Seems like pretty much the whole world is sending weapons besides China, North Korea, Iran and the usual outcast characters. The Russians started this not the Ukrainians but how dare they fight back right? They should just welcome comrade Putin with open arms in your view. It’s a shame it can’t be Putin’s blood spilled but he’s locked away in a bunker somewhere so he’s sending the youth of country to get slaughtered like sheep in the face of superior western weaponry.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 3:57 pm to TitusCrow
It lost credibility with me years ago.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 3:58 pm to Chromdome35
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/29/23 at 7:26 pm
Posted on 5/23/22 at 4:07 pm to LSU_historian
This thread is a perfect example of the current state of political discourse in the country. It is very polarized with both sides resorting to insults and attacks on the other side.
Neither side is going to change the mind of the other so it's a bit pointless.
One of the observations I have of this conversation is that most of the people on the "Ukrainian Side", myself included, have what I would call an idealistic view of "America" in that we believe in standing up for the little guy, that right is right and wrong is wrong, etc...Many of us older people grew up in a much more patriotic society than we have today, I think that influences our view of this war.
ETA: We also grew up under the shadow of the cold war which very much influences our bias towards Russia.
Neither side is going to change the mind of the other so it's a bit pointless.
One of the observations I have of this conversation is that most of the people on the "Ukrainian Side", myself included, have what I would call an idealistic view of "America" in that we believe in standing up for the little guy, that right is right and wrong is wrong, etc...Many of us older people grew up in a much more patriotic society than we have today, I think that influences our view of this war.
ETA: We also grew up under the shadow of the cold war which very much influences our bias towards Russia.
This post was edited on 5/23/22 at 4:09 pm
Posted on 5/23/22 at 4:07 pm to LSU_historian
Maybe because his info is obviously faulty?
Posted on 5/23/22 at 4:09 pm to LSU_historian
quote:
I don't understand why Lima is given such a hard time. It's obvious he favors Russia
He does not just favor Russia. He worships Putin and has said multiple times that he wishes the USA had its own Putin in power. He has not problem with Putin arresting and/or poisoning his political appointments, stealing billions from Russia, and committing atrocities left and right. Basically he has gone full hammer and sickle.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 4:20 pm to LSU_historian
quote:
I don't understand why Lima is given such a hard time.
Because he says shite like this war is the fault of the US and EU because of western expansionism, and that the best thing is for Ukraine to be conquered and subjugated. I don't take seriously anyone who advocates the subjugation of a sovereign nation to steal their resources and permanently control them.
We have other posters here who post the other side's POV without injecting their political bias in to it.
Lima is one of the ones that can't seem to do that.
Posted on 5/23/22 at 4:32 pm to Centinel
quote:
Because he says shite like this war is the fault of the US and EU because of western expansionism, and that the best thing is for Ukraine to be conquered and subjugated. I don't take seriously anyone who advocates the subjugation of a sovereign nation to steal their resources and permanently control them.
We have other posters here who post the other side's POV without injecting their political bias in to it.
Lima is one of the ones that can't seem to do that.
There is nothing sovereign about Ukraine. It is a puppet state split in two. Russian influence or Western money.
You dont have to "love Putin" to see the reality of why things are they way they are today.
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