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re: Is the Fall of France the greatest military achievement in history?

Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:29 am to
Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
151081 posts
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:29 am to
The United states fought a two front war literally on opposite sides of the world while single handedly keeping its allies economies and industry afloat for like 5 years. Unquestionably the greatest single achievement in human history
Posted by Oilfieldbiology
Member since Nov 2016
42767 posts
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:37 am to
quote:

France would have never fallen if they had competent military leadership.


FIFY
Posted by Oilfieldbiology
Member since Nov 2016
42767 posts
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:39 am to
quote:

The Russians seem to be empire killers. Read their history of successfully defeating great armies/empires Ottoman Napoleon Hitler


What’s amazing is that the only force they couldn’t really end (but still put up one hell of a fight) was the Mongols. And that’s because the Mongol horde traveled as a self sustaining nation state. They had no supply lines so the expanse if Russia that doomed so many didn’t apply to them
Posted by Oilfieldbiology
Member since Nov 2016
42767 posts
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:43 am to
Cautionary Tales: How Britain Invented, then ignored, Blitzkrieg

If you have time listen to this podcast. An arrogant British officer basically invented modern tank warfare but because of politics and personality he was ostracized and his ideas practically ignored by England and France. However Germany didn’t ignore his theories and military philosophies and that is how they dominated WWII early on
Posted by RollTide1987
Baltimore, MD
Member since Nov 2009
71733 posts
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:45 am to
quote:

You are leaving out the part that without France helping, the US likley would not have won.



The American Revolution was an unpopular war in Great Britain almost from the word "go." There were many members of Parliament sympathetic to our plight. After their defeat at Saratoga in 1777 and the subsequent entry of France into the conflict, it was essentially the stubbornness of King George III that kept Britain fighting in the colonies. By that point most of England just wanted to wash their hands clean of North America and its rebellious citizenry.
Posted by DeafJam73
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
19122 posts
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:48 am to
It was a great military operation, but don’t forget how absolutely inefficient the French army was compared to the Wehrmacht. The French did not have the ability to properly communicate and move forces the way the Germans could.
Posted by Oilfieldbiology
Member since Nov 2016
42767 posts
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:49 am to
quote:

And it really blows my mind how people underestimate the total arse kicking we gave Saddam and the Iraqi army in the First Gulf War. They had one of the largest militaries on the planet in 1990 and many of them had been battle-hardened by the Iran-Iraq War of the 1980s. Analysts were predicting it was going to be a blood bath. Instead? We drove right through them with superior technology and tactics. The war was virtually over in a matter of days once the shooting actually started.


I remember my dad telling me the Iraqi perimeter radar system was top of the line Russian technology but that the system was set up that stations did not over lap all that much, ie if one went out there was a sizable gap.

In order to avoid exploiting this the stations were linked in pairs randomly and not geographically near each other, so if those two went out the knew/assumed it was a technical error, but if only one went out it was an attack. Through intelligence we figured out which ones were linked and took out a pair with low to ground Apache helicopters.

We then flew in night hawks and destroyed all the sams inside the city and flew in every fricking plane we wanted through that radar gap, knowing the AA guns were not really effective.

This resulted in the US basically having complete and total air superiority with minimal to no risk of ground based defenses within the first 4 hours of the fight.
Posted by tketaco
Sunnyside, Houston
Member since Jan 2010
21814 posts
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:51 am to
The Gears of War campaign was pretty fricking intense.
Posted by fr33manator
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2010
135036 posts
Posted on 2/25/20 at 8:58 am to
quote:

beats the fall of those feckless frogs.



Good alliteration. Can one be “feckful” though? How much feck is required
Posted by TigerFanInSouthland
Louisiana
Member since Aug 2012
28065 posts
Posted on 2/25/20 at 9:00 am to
quote:

Ah, French surrender monkeys and Russian winter, the 2 main crutches for history newbs.


Not sure what General Winter has to do with that.
Posted by el Gaucho
He/They
Member since Dec 2010
60162 posts
Posted on 2/25/20 at 9:01 am to
quote:

Israel defeated Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and Lebanon in a mere 6 days.

Amazing what you can accomplish with American tax dollars
Posted by AbuTheMonkey
Chicago, IL
Member since May 2014
8720 posts
Posted on 2/25/20 at 9:06 am to
quote:

Cautionary Tales: How Britain Invented, then ignored, Blitzkrieg

If you have time listen to this podcast. An arrogant British officer basically invented modern tank warfare but because of politics and personality he was ostracized and his ideas practically ignored by England and France. However Germany didn’t ignore his theories and military philosophies and that is how they dominated WWII early on



Blitzkrieg integrated quite a bit from a lot of different sources. Intellectual influence from the British and Soviets, practical lessons learned from the Spanish Nationalists, etc. A concept that sweeping and revolutionary doesn't just appear out of thin air.
Posted by Oilfieldbiology
Member since Nov 2016
42767 posts
Posted on 2/25/20 at 9:13 am to
No it doesn’t but it’s interesting that it originated in the minds of Germany’s opponents but was not utilized by them until after the devastating effectiveness it displayed during the early WWII battles.

Britain and France were very slow to do away with their horses as these were status symbols of the officer corps. But because Germany was stripped bare of military might after WWI they had no institutional pride, and went with what the best technology was
This post was edited on 2/25/20 at 9:15 am
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
139229 posts
Posted on 2/25/20 at 9:28 am to
Posted by TigerFanInSouthland
Louisiana
Member since Aug 2012
28065 posts
Posted on 2/25/20 at 9:43 am to
quote:

The United states fought a two front war literally on opposite sides of the world while single handedly keeping its allies economies and industry afloat for like 5 years. Unquestionably the greatest single achievement in human history


Made a thread about this very topic last year.

LINK

And of course it’s the most impressive thing a country has ever done in the history of the world.
Posted by Champagne
Sabine Free State.
Member since Oct 2007
56207 posts
Posted on 2/25/20 at 10:05 am to
This book's detailed and accurate description of the evolution of infantry tactics during WW I allows a strong argument to be made that Imperial German Army "infiltration" or "stormtroop" tactics are the basis for "blitzkrieg" methods.

The term "blitzkrieg" itself, as you probably already know, was invented by an english-speaking journalist, not a German. The Germans of WW II were simply practicing and improving on their tactical and operational methods that they developed in WW I. They didn't call it "blitzkrieg" as though it were something completely new.

The British inter-war mobile war theorists also based their thinking on German infantry tactical and operational methods of 1918.

LINK


This post was edited on 2/25/20 at 10:09 am
Posted by Stonehog
Platinum Rewards Club
Member since Aug 2011
34278 posts
Posted on 2/25/20 at 10:09 am to
quote:

The Maginot line was actually very advanced defense technology for it's time.


Not advanced enough to prevent people from just walking around it I guess.
Posted by Nigel Farage
South of the Mason-Dixon
Member since Dec 2019
1242 posts
Posted on 2/25/20 at 10:16 am to
Maybe in modern times? People forget that because of the First World War 40% of Frances male fighting age population were casualties in it, that kind of carnage will wreak havoc on future populations and military doctrine. France gets all of the shite for how quickly they fell but the BEF got ran of the continent in 2 and a half weeks also, they werent alone in this defeat, their doctrine wasnt up to snuff yet either.

I have a couple other military achievements I would put up there, the Battle of Alesia where Julius Caesar was surrounded by a confederacy of Gauls tribes and managed to break out and smash them and the insurgency.

The battle of Cannae where Hannibal enveloped an entire Roman legion and proceeded to kill them all over the course of a day is a good one too. Hell the modern world wouldnt see casualty numbers like the one day at Cannae until the first day of The Somme over 2 thousand years later.

Last would be the Alexanders military conquest of Persia and Egypt. I could go into more detail about this one but other posters have made sufficient points.
This post was edited on 2/25/20 at 10:17 am
Posted by Napoleon
Kenna
Member since Dec 2007
74900 posts
Posted on 2/25/20 at 10:37 am to
First FIFY I agreed with. Yes their generals not the troops.
Posted by Roaad
White Privilege Broker
Member since Aug 2006
85394 posts
Posted on 2/25/20 at 10:43 am to
quote:

Khan’s campaigns were unmatched.

this
this
this
THIS

Unlike Hitler's Germany, Genghis Khan's Mongols were able to win a 2 front war. And they whipped both the Medieval Euros and the Chinese.

Later they decided to mosey on down and destroy the Muslim armies.

The only thing that stopped the Khans were the deaths of the Khans
This post was edited on 2/25/20 at 10:48 am
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