re: Do Russian history students learn about WWII the other way around?

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I do believe that Germany wins the war in the east if they take Moscow

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General Heinz Guderian was adamant about this in his memoirs. His contention is that Hitler's diverting of Army Group Center's panzer divisions to the Ukrainian theater to complete the encirclement of the Soviet armies there and the securing of Kiev, which forced Army Group Center to halt it's drive on Moscow for several critical weeks, doomed the campaign and possibly lost the entire war. He was a huge supporter of the notion that encircling and destroying Soviet armies was much less significant than seizing major objectives like Moscow. The armies would collapse amongst themselves once the economic, political, and logistical hubs were seized and could afford the Germans areas to hunker down and consolidate their power and resources.

He also recognized that if they fell short of Moscow before winter, they were dangerously exposed behind nondefensible lines. When it became evident that Moscow would not be taken and a Soviet counteroffensive was imminent, Guderian requested withdrawal to defensive positions. Hitler refused. Guderian did so anyway and was sacked.

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But you have to take contentions like, "I recognized the overriding important of Moscow early on, and if only I had been in charge, the war would have been as good as won. But that Hitler..." with a grain of salt.

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possibly. Bjut its been one of the most discussed aspects of ww2 and, at least what I've read/watched it seems like most military historians agree that hitlers fascination with destroying armies instead of capturing cities was one of the major asprcts that led to their defeat

It's not so much them throwing the towel in as much as I don't see how they could effectively wage war on a large scale once Germany had completed its occupation of the the USSR located in europe

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But you have to take contentions like, "I recognized the overriding important of Moscow early on, and if only I had been in charge, the war would have been as good as won. But that Hitler..." with a grain of salt.

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Of course, this is the case with all memoirs. But I'm inclined to believe Guderian was sincere in this. He wrote the book on modern armored warfare, literally, before the war ever happened. He was the author of Achtung Panzer and was a brilliant innovator in modern warfare. He was also one of the ONLY commanders willing to openly defy Hitler and to argue with him about being wrong. His shouting matches with Hitler are well recorded by historians. And that Hitler respected his genius is evidenced by the fact that he continuously brought him back and even promoted him in spite of his open defiance. This was not the typical path for those who defied and challenged Hitler's decisions.

There is no debating that the decision to reroute Army Group Center's panzer corps to Ukraine was made by Hitler and the high command, NOT Guderian. I don't have sources at my finger tips but there may even be evidence of formal complaints by Guderian. It's been many years since I read his memoirs.

Bump, and another request for a History Board.

Don't know about Russians, but Chinese kids are taught that China defeated Japan in WW2. Had an exchange student last year and little fricker would get mad as a hornet if you told him otherwise.

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Honestly, I wonder if they are taught about Stalin killing hundreds of his officers?



And millions upon millions of other innocent people? More than hitler and hussein combined

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I keep seeing this in the thread a lot... Stalin is considered a not-good guy on Russia these days. His name has been trashed and the Russian people do not have a good memory of him. I don't know exactly when that happened... but yeah, he's known for his atrocities and brings a feeling of hatred from locals fwiw

As for what is taught about the great war - much more about the huge loss of life and their inflated sense of importance in winning the German front - not much different than American history classes about our role.

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The cold war started right after WWII, but that had nothing to do with WWII.. The US & Russia were actually allies in WWII, but right after WWII the cold war started because both countries were pretty much competing to be THE super power.

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cold war started before the end of WW2

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Technically, Russia was on the winning side.

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Not sure how it's a technicality when they had a lot more skin in the game than the United States.

The red army couldn't have won without American food, Bullets, and trucks. The red army ran on spam. There is zero chance of a Russian victory at Stalingrad without American supplies.