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Started By
Message
re: Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) ***W.H.O. DECLARES A GLOBAL PANDEMIC***
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:29 am to slackster
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:29 am to slackster
quote:
-crickets when any of you are asked to reconcile these 30-50 fold “lies“ in China against the fact there are only 75 confirms cases in the rest of the world. If China is lieing and there are 100k-250k cases there, how on Earth do you explain only 75 in the rest of the world?
I really can’t wait for Poker_hog to share the data out of Hong Kong that blows what I posted out of the water.
Muh supression and all.
2
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:34 am to Volvagia
I can respect the skepticism that leads to conspiracy theories and whatnot. I think it's important to have a healthy dose of skepticism in today's world. As a result, I've enjoyed this thread and the back and forth.
If you've got an alternative theory, you should be prepared to defend it. I just don't see how any of these alternatives hold up right now.
If you've got an alternative theory, you should be prepared to defend it. I just don't see how any of these alternatives hold up right now.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:36 am to lsu13lsu
quote:
It sounds like China knew something was up. Let millions leave and go give company trainings and get on tour buses around the world.
I mean if this happened in Canada or England or Germany or the USA the same would have happened...can you imagine an outbreak in NYC or LA right before Christmas and the government trying to close the cities down? Let's be fair here.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:41 am to baldona
quote:
I mean if this happened in Canada or England or Germany or the USA the same would have happened...can you imagine an outbreak in NYC or LA right before Christmas and the government trying to close the cities down? Let's be fair here.
No one said they had to close down the cities. But, other countries could have been made aware and handled people coming in as they saw fit. Maybe people wouldn't have been allowed to travel the world and give Company Trainings or piled into Tour Buses.
This post was edited on 1/28/20 at 8:43 am
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:45 am to Volvagia
quote:
I really can’t wait for Poker_hog to share the data out of Hong Kong that blows what I posted out of the water.
Muh supression and all.
You posted a series of case reports for only 41 pts. I’m talking about basic things how contagious and leathal is the virus. If China has given these estimates please inform me. At least Hong Kong has given estimates on how contagious the virus is.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:48 am to lsu13lsu
quote:
No one said they had to close down the cities. But, other countries could have been made aware and handled people coming in as they saw fit. Maybe people wouldn't have been allowed to travel the world and give Company Trainings or piled into Tour Buses.
This still hasn't been done though. If someone visited Wuhan then went to Hong Kong, then flew to the USA the USA would barely be doing much for them right now.
I understand your POV and in an ideal world you are right, but I don't think the real world can react that fast.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:50 am to slackster
quote:
, none of this is documented. If you believe rumors, sure, but documented? Hardly.
I shared an article that documented China's actions to stonewall at the start. From your point of view any eyewitness testimony is a rumor and anything put out by the CCP is substantiated.
quote:
I know China was harassing journalists who were calling it a return of SARS, but on an international level they've recieved mostly praise for their cooperation.
Negative. China jailed journalists who reported on the existence of this thing.
The fact that you would defend that is crazy to me. quote:
You and a few others have basically warped any and all news to paint some World War Z agenda.
If you have honestly followed my posts you know that I have been pretty fair, and said that this thing might be closer to the flu in mortality rate.
It triggers you and Volvagia just to post what others from inside China are claiming or those who know people on the inside. I am not saying I believe all the claims, but if it is not provably false it is a data point to consider. The CCP has a history of lying to the outside world and its own people and squashing dissent. That hasn't all of the sudden changed. If anything it is worse these days from reports I have heard over the past five years.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:58 am to Lsut81
quote:In terms of infections, this is going to be way worse. SARs had ~8000 infections over months. We are basely a couple weeks into it and already over 4500.
Agree... And I think the media is beginning to call BS and assume this is going to be SARS 2.0, of which the Chinese govt got railed internationally.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 9:01 am to TigerTatorTots
The infections began in early December so we are more than a couple weeks into this outbreak. However, the number of cases is very high.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 9:02 am to TigerTatorTots
The German case appears to be a case whee an asymptomatic person infected another:
quote:
@StefaMoritz
·
5h
An interesting detail of the German case of #2019nCoV. The suspected index person who transmitted the virus to the German patient has left #Germany asymptomatic. she got symptoms on her flight back home. it seems that patients are infectious before getting symptomatic
Posted on 1/28/20 at 9:12 am to LSUGrrrl
quote:Fair point. My wording should have been that broad transfer just really began a couple weeks ago and seems to be increasing exponentially in the past couple days. Unless it just stops, we will be well past SARs by end of the week.
The infections began in early December so we are more than a couple weeks into this outbreak.
This post was edited on 1/28/20 at 9:34 am
Posted on 1/28/20 at 9:21 am to Poker_hog
quote:
I’m talking about basic things how contagious and leathal is the virus.
these aren’t basic questions however, in so far as basic meaning “simple” It sounds like you want pre digested data, when in reality openness is associated to raw facts.
Those aren’t arbitrarily selected 41 patents. Those are the entirety of those hospitalized of the first group infected, and gives detailed data of their treatment and outcomes, as well as listing potential complicating factors and comparisons to non hospitalized controls.
What more data do you want? What you think determinations of lethality is based on if not on detailed clinical pathology?
Which reminds me......I didn’t ask for your feelings of openness. I asked you for data.
You said HK was giving more data from 8 cases than China did.
I just posted a 20+ page clinical study with documented patient history of the disease.
For the testing portions, they contain methods so the experiments can be evaluated/replicated.
Give me what you are seeing from HK that not only matches, but surpasses that.
Gimmie.
If nothing else I’ll learn more.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 9:22 am to Volvagia
quote:
There is not one shred of evidence that they haven’t been upfront with the international community about this. Not one.
Absolutely there is. Communist lie. Always.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 9:26 am to CivilTiger83
quote:
It triggers you and Volvagia just to post what others from inside China are claiming or those who know people on the inside. I am not saying I believe all the claims, but if it is not provably false it is a data point to consider. The CCP has a history of lying to the outside world and its own people and squashing dissent. That hasn't all of the sudden changed. If anything it is worse these days from reports I have heard over the past five years.
Like I've said, you can basically ignore China and look at the global data. Until it changes, the numbers from China seem legitimate.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 9:26 am to TigerTatorTots
quote:
In terms of infections, this is going to be way worse. SARs had ~8000 infections over months. We are basely a couple weeks into it and already over 4500.
SARS was contained relatively quickly and confined to small areas if I remember correctly. It also had a shorted incubation period. The problem with this one is that it has already spread around the world and its probably too late to contain it. Especially with its long incubation period.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 9:28 am to crap4brain
SARS was in 29 countries. The key was the short incubation period, I believe.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 9:31 am to baldona
quote:
can you imagine an outbreak in NYC or LA right before Christmas and the government trying to close the cities down?
Apples and oranges. They live in a communist country without basic rights like freedom of speech. This isn’t a crazy scenario for them.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 9:39 am to Burhead
quote:
The German case appears to be a case whee an asymptomatic person infected another:
As soon as I saw the trainer was a female, I suspected that they were banging...
I’m more concerned about the bus driver in Japan and how he got it, if it’s supposed to be transferred by droplets.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 9:39 am to Volvagia
quote:
You said HK was giving more data from 8 cases than China did.
I never said data I said information which remains true. If you think a small series of case reports proves China is being “upfront with the international community” there’s no point in arguing with you.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 9:47 am to Poker_hog
Ohio:
quote:
#BREAKING: @miamiuniversity and Butler Co. Health are investigating two possible cases of coronavirus - they are reportedly not seriously ill, but in isolation now. @WCPO
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