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Started By
Message
re: Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) ***W.H.O. DECLARES A GLOBAL PANDEMIC***
Posted on 1/28/20 at 7:44 am to LSUGrrrl
Posted on 1/28/20 at 7:44 am to LSUGrrrl
quote:
The man had not visited China but a Chinese work colleague who was in Germany last week had started to feel sick on the flight home on 23 January, said Andreas Zapf, the head of the Bavarian state office for health and food safety.
He had attended a training session given by his Chinese colleague on 21 January at the office of a car parts supplier, Webasto, in Stockdorf, Bavaria, and tested positive for the virus on Monday evening.
Not following the timeline.
I guess a Chinese worker had flown back home, was asymptomatic but contagious and got someone sick a couple days before falling ill. If so, that is worst case scenario for this type of thing.
1
Posted on 1/28/20 at 7:46 am to CivilTiger83
quote:
Delay, lie, stonewall until its too late and then take measures to try and make it look like to the outside world that they are doing what needs to be done, but those measures were too little too late.
I’m confused: your basis for claiming that things were obviously bad was how their reaction was so out of line with the claimed facts.
Now they are clearly nefarious for being “too little, too late?” Even though the “claimed facts” haven’t changed out of expectations? GTFO of here.
China is a bunch of assholes and I’m not claiming they are on the up and up about everything here but you are sitting there with the circular logic of they are clearly lying because they are lying and you have been cherry picking facts to support that reality.
For fricks sake, do I need to bring up all of the western papers that came up within 4 weeks of the index case turning symptomatic? Do you not realize that it was over 4 months before that happened with SARS?
Sending samples of virus and sequenced genomes to the CDC from gen-1 cases?
Publicized treatments, patient histories, secondary factors and outcomes to the global medical community?
They have even shared serum results of both infected hospitalized vs clinical patients for comparison purposes.
They are obviously suppressing internally, but that’s par for the course for China. They do that for everything.
There is not one shred of evidence that they haven’t been upfront with the international community about this. Not one.
And frick you for making me defend the state of China.
This post was edited on 1/28/20 at 7:54 am
Posted on 1/28/20 at 7:56 am to Volvagia
quote:
There is not one shred of evidence that they haven’t been upfront with the international community about this. Not one.
You really think they are being upfront with the international community? There’s better information coming out of Hong Kong that has 8 cases than China that undoubtedly has 10s of thousands of cases.
It’s also really suspicious that WHO basically said our bad, this thing is way worse than we said last week. The guys at who aren’t stupid, clearly they didn’t have all the facts.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 7:57 am to Volvagia
Posted on 1/28/20 at 7:57 am to Poker_hog
quote:
Taiwan CDC announces the 8th case was the first local infected patient, who was the husband of case 5. Male in 50s, showed symptoms on Jan. 26 and was hospitalized and confirmed positive today. Case 5 has been working in Wuhan since Oct. 2019 and returned to Taiwan on the same flight with Case 1 on Jan. 20, and was hospitalized on Jan. 25. Case 8 was her husband, who spent 6 days with her from Jan. 20-25, until she was hospitalized, he then began showing symptoms and was hospitalized on Jan. 26.
LINK
Posted on 1/28/20 at 7:58 am to Poker_hog
quote:
It’s also really suspicious that WHO basically said our bad, this thing is way worse than we said last week. The guys at who aren’t stupid, clearly they didn’t have all the facts.
Didn't someone say it has a 10 day incubation period? That might be where some of the error was.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 7:58 am to Volvagia
quote:
They are obviously suppressing internally, but that’s par for the course for China. They do that for everything.
There is not one shred of evidence that they haven’t been upfront with the international community about this. Not one.
Really, then where are there numerous reports from citizens and health care workers in China telling us how they are lying about the true count? There are many reports of people being turned away from hospitals. They are actively suppressing information on the ground right now.
And there is this...
LINK
quote:
As Chinese authorities widened a massive urban lockdown and flew large numbers of medical personnel to Wuhan, the epicentre of a new SARS-like virus, medical authorities provided new indications that weeks of inaction had allowed the virus to spread widely before serious measures were taken.
quote:
Now, new evidence is emerging that officials in Wuhan deliberately downplayed the virus, even after formally notifying the World Health Organization on Dec. 31 about what the WHO described as “a cluster of cases of pneumonia of unknown cause.”
quote:
But the Wuhan government took a “refrigerating strategy” in the early days of the viral spread, a doctor at Wuhan Union Hospital told China News Weekly. Medical staff were banned from speaking publicly about what was taking place or accepting media interviews, the doctor said.
Police in Wuhan also said in early January that they had arrested eight people for spreading “rumours” about what was then a little-understood pneumonia affecting a growing number of people.
Another person claiming to be a Wuhan physician wrote to the National Health Commission this week claiming that doctors in the city were told not to report “viral pneumonia” in their imaging reports between Jan. 12 and Jan. 16 — a period during which local officials delivered sunny reports on a local situation under control. That meant that, during a crucial period in which cases were accumulating, local health-care workers were unable to properly raise the alarm, the person wrote. The Globe and Mail was unable to independently verify the report, which was widely circulated in China and not refuted by state media.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:00 am to Poker_hog
quote:
There’s better information coming out of Hong Kong that has 8 cases than China that undoubtedly has 10s of thousands of cases
Give me more detailed info out of Hong Kong than what was provided in the link above please.
Published in the UK based Lanclet no less, not something local.
What information you feel you are lacking?
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:02 am to CivilTiger83
Is there any sign of this killing healthy people? Or is it mostly like the flu and kills the young, old, and sickly?
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:04 am to Powerman
quote:
Didn't someone say it has a 10 day incubation period? That might be where some of the error was.
It’s been said it can be up to 10 days but most reports say 3-7 days are when most begin to show symptoms.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:06 am to Volvagia
The Mayor of Wuhan admitted that information was disseminated to slow because he wasn't allowed to speak on the subject until January 20th.
I'm sure you are aware how severe The CCP treats dissenting party officials
I'm sure you are aware how severe The CCP treats dissenting party officials
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:06 am to Volvagia
quote:
Delay, lie, stonewall until its too late and then take measures to try and make it look like to the outside world that they are doing what needs to be done, but those measures were too little too late.
I don't see how anyone can argue with this. I mean, I do think people are overly emotional about this and this will probably blow over but the above is absolutely true. They let millions of people leave the area and go to other countries knowing full well this thing was a new coronavirus which everyone has been discussing for years as a bad thing.
The thing not being discussed is what happens when it is a real deal killer virus? Yes, we have been lucky with SARS etc but if this is a trial run for a real deal killer then we are doomed.
This post was edited on 1/28/20 at 8:08 am
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:08 am to baldona
quote:
Is there any sign of this killing healthy people? Or is it mostly like the flu and kills the young, old, and sickly?
There have been a couple cases of people who aren’t old or very young dying but it’s mainly much older, very young or otherwise health compromised. However, the Spanish flu started off killing only the elderly or young then became deadly to all ages in the 2nd wave. It’s important to see if we begin to see an explosion of p2p transmission outside of China and if there’s any mutations leading to more deaths of all ages.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:11 am to CivilTiger83
quote:
Really, then where are there numerous reports from citizens and health care workers in China telling us how they are lying about the true count?
Because people are stupid and lots of people are jumping to conclusions (and reporting on them) without understanding what they are reading.
For instance: the assumption that lab confirmed cases are what the government is claiming is the degree of the spread. That number was at 44k yesterday. That’s open data. And that isn’t evidence of China “lying”
Also, the stories might be true but the more I hear about them the more holes they have. How can they have even a rough estimate of infected? What, are they multiplying what they see in a clinic?
One story in this thread both claimed thousands dead along with the claim that they haven’t seen corpses because “as soon as a patient starts to go down hill the govt takes them away.” Never mind that we have video evidence to the contrary, making that statement a complete outright lie.
No, I’m not going to rely on Twitter as my factual basis, especially not before their stories don’t start to align with the facts we know. But hey, you were the guy who read one person saying 90k infected and another one saying 250k and your reaction was that the two make sense with each other. A virus that takes 6 days to double in infected count, somehow tripling in 3 days. Makes perfect sense.
This post was edited on 1/28/20 at 8:12 am
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:12 am to CivilTiger83
quote:
Its been documented that they hid this whole thing for weeks until it get so out of control that nothing could be done. It's been documented that they lied about the early cases. They are silencing voices now.
, none of this is documented. If you believe rumors, sure, but documented? Hardly. quote:
You have been constantly defending the CCP at every turn.
IDGAF about China's government, but because I refuse to post one-sided, doomsday-esque rumors, I'm apparently a sympathizer.
I know China was harassing journalists who were calling it a return of SARS, but on an international level they've recieved mostly praise for their cooperation.
You and a few others have basically warped any and all news to paint some World War Z agenda. In this very thread I've seen the same group argue, depending on the flavor of the day:
-the mass quarantines aren't heavy handed because they're lieng about the numbers
-the numbers a clearly a lie or else the mass quarantines are heavy handed
-the Harvard study says 500k people may get infected, so it's legit
-the Harvard study says 95% of people who have it aren't going to be confirmed because their symptoms are mild or even asymptomatic, but that's impossible to know so the study is BS
-regression models that are predicting 200k-500k estimated infections are highlighted
-when China's daily reporting is very close to the predicted rises, it's clear China is just fudging the numbers to make them match the models. It can't be that the models are actually sound
-I've seen you insinuate 90k people were infected before the weekend, and 250k are infected now, and this is clearly a huge deal because of all the international travel and how highly contagious it is
-crickets when any of you are asked to reconcile these 30-50 fold “lies“ in China against the fact there are only 75 confirms cases in the rest of the world. If China is lieing and there are 100k-250k cases there, how on Earth do you explain only 75 in the rest of the world?
Look, I don't trust a communist country like China as far as I can throw it, but all of the numbers make sense. Until that changes, I see no reason to come up with some alternative theory. Have they handled this perfectly? Not even close, but relative to SARS, this is a massive improvement.
This post was edited on 1/28/20 at 8:20 am
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:13 am to CivilTiger83
quote:
I guess a Chinese worker had flown back home, was asymptomatic but contagious and got someone sick a couple days before falling ill. If so, that is worst case scenario for this type of thing.
It sounds like China knew something was up. Let millions leave and go give company trainings and get on tour buses around the world.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:18 am to CivilTiger83
quote:
Really, then where are there numerous reports from citizens and health care workers in China telling us how they are lying about the true count? There are many reports of people being turned away from hospitals. They are actively suppressing information on the ground right now.
Confirmation bias. This entire thread is littered with it.
Ignore the numbers from the rest of the world, let's focus on a handful of snapchat videos in a country of 1.4B people. Nevermind out own experiences in the US that suggest "eye witness reports" during disasters are often hogwash.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:19 am to Poker_hog
quote:
It’s also really suspicious that WHO basically said our bad, this thing is way worse than we said last week. The guys at who aren’t stupid, clearly they didn’t have all the facts.
Clearly. Never mind that the WHO has been attacked and accused of politicizing the process for every single major outbreak in recent memory. Accusations of being irresponsible for declaring it too early or too late.
But THIS time it’s clearly because of bad info from China. Dem boys be too smhart to mess’up like that.
This post was edited on 1/28/20 at 8:20 am
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:23 am to Poker_hog
quote:
It’s also really suspicious that WHO basically said our bad, this thing is way worse than we said last week. The guys at who aren’t stupid, clearly they didn’t have all the facts.
See, confirmation bias.
WHO made a typo. They carry over much of their daily reports, and when they upgraded it to a high global risk on 1/22, they didn't list it as such on their reports. They've caught it and changed it.
If they were being lied to, why would the retroactively go back and fix it? Why would they embarrassingly frame it the way they did when they could have blamed China.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 8:26 am to lsu13lsu
quote:
I don't see how anyone can argue with this. I mean, I do think people are overly emotional about this and this will probably blow over but the above is absolutely true. They let millions of people leave the area and go to other countries knowing full well this thing was a new coronavirus which ever
This is a game of hindsight though.
Pretty much everyone I’ve heard of authority on the topic was commenting how aggressive it was to take the measures they did. An opinion previously shared by the doomsayers in this thread as recently as 72 hours ago.
It’s all symbolism anyway. Blanket quarantines have been proven not to work other than to strike fear in a populace. They key is to keep individuals indoors. You can’t completely shut down regional transit
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