re: Catalonia's Parliament just voted to declare independence from Spain; Spain fights back

If Catalonia is successful, the Basques will likely be next. Then, we will likely see Scotland and Northern Ireland declare independence from the UK, then break apart. The islands like Sardenia, Corsica, and Sicily will likely declare independence. Then Northern Italy will secede from South. Then Italy will break apart into 100 city states. Germany will he much the same as it will return to much as it was prior to the unification of the late 19th century. France likely will split between north and south as well, with a portion likely going to the Basques and another, like the Alcase-Loreigne, likely becoming independent.

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10 years ago I wrote a paper and had a doctoral candidate belittle it as impossible. And here we go. Germany will own Europe without firing a shot.

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I'd be going balls deep on this person right now

Smaller gov't is always better.

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If Catalonia is successful, the Basques will likely be next. Then, we will likely see Scotland and Northern Ireland declare independence from the UK, then break apart. The islands like Sardenia, Corsica, and Sicily will likely declare independence. Then Northern Italy will secede from South. Then Italy will break apart into 100 city states. Germany will he much the same as it will return to much as it was prior to the unification of the late 19th century. France likely will split between north and south as well, with a portion likely going to the Basques and another, like the Alcase-Loreigne, likely becoming independent.

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There are elephants in the room, and I confess to not reading up on all this. I've been a hispanophile for decades, but have never visited. However, given Europe's overall dependence on government largesse for a great many people, what happens to all the welfare mandates and such when the larger central governments (and their treasuries) are gone?

It's all well and good for all these regions to break apart, and determine for themselves. Admittedly, it makes me a bit uncomfortable, but say Catalunya breaks away, their tax base immediately shrinks and how do they pay all those people who already can't find work OR who refuse to work? Entitlement mentality and all that is strong in the Europeans, as I perceive it.

The English are even worse, they hate the idea of any decrease in entitlements, and that's at the individual level. Look at the protests over "austerity measures" all over the continent. Euros tend to look down on us Americans for being yahoos and dumb, but how is it so many of them can't get it through their skulls that if there's NO MONEY IN THE TREAUSRY, how can they pay "benefits???" And, if all these regions do succeed in gaining independence and separate, those treasuries will have so fewer people paying into them. Then what? Who do you revolt against then?

Meanwhile, it makes it all that much easier for Islam to dominate the continent, you make smaller autonomous regions, smaller populations mean Muslim majorities in the electorate happen that much sooner. Since the majority of Europeans in the last 75 years have eschewed Christianity, how will they "fight back" as it were? Last time the Muslims almost took over, there were large Christianity-following nation-states that could unite to put a stop to it.

This radically secular, ethnic Europe will have no idea or political will to stop an Islam that is quite comfortable in its religious self.

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It's sounds like we're on the precipice of a major shake up.

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It's got to be setting off alarm bells throughout Europe.

I am skeptical how far the separatist movement will spread.

Spain was vulnerable to pro-independence movements due to their economic issues. Large economically stable countries may not have the same restless population as in Spain.

Scotland stands out to us but they voted down independence after major concessions from the UK national parliament. BREXIT would be the only catalyst but from what I understand, the entire UK not just Scotland is starting to regret BREXIT

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Always nice to see the gays make it over to the OT.

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Where are they?

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If only California would do that. And then split itself into different states

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I imagine these events will set that conversation even further into motion. If this blows up and becomes international news, which it very possibly will, Dems will be calling for it and potentially trying to go through with it.

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Belgium will be two, maybe three countries in my lifetime. Scotland will become independent given the outcome of the Brexit vote, but Shetland wants to remain part of the U.K. regardless. Who knows what will come of Welsh nationalism and the situation in Ulster. The Basques in Spain and France will likely follow the Catalans and who knows the effect this will have on Galician nationalism. The fracturing of Europe on this scale isn't something we've seen since before WWI.

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I wonder how much of a factor the rise of the EU has been. I suspect it is larger than many EU supporters are willing to admit.

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I wonder how much of a factor the rise of the EU has been. I suspect it is larger than many EU supporters are willing to admit.

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Scruffy feeling ok?

Thought this was the Poliboard.