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Australia's ban on guns did not lower violent crimes, murders, or suicides

Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:22 am
Posted by stout
Porte du Lafitte
Member since Sep 2006
182380 posts
Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:22 am
And also created a violent black market

Keep in mind guns were banned in 1996 and though there is a drop in murder rates, studies show those were natural drops just as every civilized nation has experienced the same or larger drops in murders

quote:

A Trend in Falling Rates

As noted by legal scholar Michael Tonry:

There is now general agreement, at least for developed English-speaking countries and western Europe, that homicide patterns have moved in parallel since the 1950s. The precise timing of the declines has varied, but the common pattern is apparent. Homicide rates increased substantially from various dates in the 1960s, peaked in the early 1990s or slightly later, and have since fallen substantially.

This was certainly the case in the United States. US homicides hit a 51-year low in 2014, falling to a level not seen since 1963. This followed the general trend: peaking in the early 1990s and then going into steep decline. And yet, we can't point to any new national gun control measure that we can then claim caused the decline. In fact, the data suggests gun ownership increased significantly during this period.



quote:

Australia followed the same pattern, although national homicide data collection was spotty before the early 1990s:





quote:

Faced with a lack of evidence that the 1996 law caused Australia to follow the same trend in homicides as both the US and Canada, advocates for laws like Australia's then fall back on the strategy of pointing out that Australia's homicide rates are lower than the US's. The problem with this strategy, of course, is that Australia's homicide rates were not comparable to those in the US either before or after 1996. The causes of the difference in rates between the two countries obviously pre-date modern gun regulation measures in both countries. (We might also point out that several US states—some of which have very lax gun laws—have very low homicide rates comparable to Australia's.)


quote:

Suicide Rates Are Back at Pre-1996 Levels

Perhaps recognizing that homicide rates haven't actually changed all that much in the wake of 1996, some defenders of Australia's gun legislation have tried to gild the lily by claiming that an additional benefit of legislation has been a decline in suicide rates. This is a common strategy among gun control advocates who often like to claim gun control is a suicide prevention measure.

For example, it's not difficult to find media headlines proclaiming "suicide figures plummeted" in Australia after the adoption of the 1996 law. But Australia runs into a similar problem here as with gun control: suicide rates fell substantially during the same period in Canada, the US, and much of Europe.

Moreover, in recent years, suicide rates in Australia and the US have climbed upward again. There's little doubt that suicide rates fell from 1995 to 2006, dropping from 12 per 100,000 to under nine per 100,000. But after that, suicide rates climbed to a ten-year high in 2015, rising again to 12 per 100,000, or a rate comparable to what existed before the 1996 gun measure. In other words, suicides are back to where they were. But as recently as 2017, we're still hearing about how gun control also makes suicides decline.


LINK


Other crimes rose immediately after the gun ban and remain largely unchanged

quote:

After the gun ban, violent crime rates were up:

Yes, as with the gun-happy United States, the murder rate is down in Australia. It’s dropped 31 percent from a rate of 1.6 per 100,000 people in 1994 to 1.1 per 100,000 in 2012.But it’s the only serious crime that saw a consistent decline post-ban.

In fact, according to the Australian government’s own statistics, a number of serious crimes peaked in the years after the ban. Manslaughter, sexual assault, kidnapping, armed robbery, and unarmed robbery all saw peaks in the years following the ban, and most remain near or above pre-ban rates. The effects of the 1996 ban on violent crime are, frankly, unimpressive at best.

It’s even less impressive when again compared to America’s decrease in violent crime over the same period. According to data from the U.S. Justice Department, violent crime fell nearly 72 percent between 1993 and 2011. Again, this happened as guns were being manufactured and purchased at an ever-increasing rate.


Australia Sees Spike in Gun Crime Despite Outright Ban


There is a dangerous and huge black market for criminals to traffic weapons

Thousands of Australians are buying guns and GRENADES on the dark web - and pay black market firearms dealers to sneak them into the country


Australian-style gun control led to a violent black market

quote:

In Australia, part of the supply of banned firearms comes from defiance of the original prohibition. The Sporting Shooters’ Association of Australia estimates compliance with the “buyback” at 19 percent.

Other researchers agree. In a white paper on the results of gun control efforts around the world, Franz Csaszar, a professor of criminology at the University of Vienna, Austria, gives examples of large-scale non-compliance with the ban. He points out, “In Australia it is estimated that only about 20% of all banned self-loading rifles have been given up to the authorities.”


quote:

“Police admit they cannot eradicate a black market that is peddling illegal guns to criminals,” the Adelaide Advertiser conceded a few years ago. “Motorcycle gang members and convicted criminals barred from buying guns in South Australia have no difficulty obtaining illegal firearms – including fully automatic weapons.”

More recently, the country’s The New Daily gained access to “previously unpublished data for firearms offences” and reported a surge in crime “including a massive 83 per cent increase in firearms offences in NSW between 2005/06 and 2014/15, and an even bigger jump in Victoria over the same period.”

“Australians may be more at risk from gun crime than ever before with the country’s underground market for firearms ballooning in the past decade,” the report added. “[T]he national ban on semi-automatic weapons following the Port Arthur massacre had spawned criminal demand for handguns.”


FAILURE OF GUN CONTROL, AN AUSTRALIAN PERSPECTIVE

quote:

A 2013 report suggested in a conservative estimate that there are a total of 250,000 long guns and 10,000 handguns on the illicit grey or black markets in Australia. Criminals will always find a way to arm themselves with illegal weapons purchased on the black market or stolen weapons from theft and robberies.




Gun control doesn't stop criminals and makes the public more vulnerable
Posted by kywildcatfanone
Wildcat Country!
Member since Oct 2012
139440 posts
Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:25 am to
The idea that gun bans affect violence is a fantasy. Any normal person knows this.
Posted by CAD703X
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
93336 posts
Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:26 am to
but muh feels
Posted by Glorious
Mobile
Member since Aug 2014
26346 posts
Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:26 am to
Yea but it did make it way easy for the Australian government to subjugate its citizens during Covid
This post was edited on 5/25/22 at 8:28 am
Posted by stout
Porte du Lafitte
Member since Sep 2006
182380 posts
Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:29 am to
quote:

Yea but it did make it way easy for the Australian government to subjugate its citizens during Covid



Sure did and how did many citizens respond? They tried to arm themselves and failed


Australians are banned from buying GUNS after a huge surge in people trying to get hold of firearms in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic


quote:

Victorians have been banned from purchasing guns after permit applications increased amid fears of the coronavirus pandemic.

Police Minister Lisa Neville said at a press conference on Tuesday the number of people attempting to access firearms and ammunition had doubled.

The minister and the National Cabinet decided to pause the sales of firearms and ammunition for sporting or recreational purposes.

Posted by Jsand43
Member since May 2021
882 posts
Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:30 am to
Crime fell in America with the legalization of abortion, but nobody wants to talk about that...
Posted by SulphursFinest
Lafayette
Member since Jan 2015
11699 posts
Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:32 am to
My fix is to bring back public hangings for shite like this. Obviously this dude is dead, but the TOPS shooter, walk him out in the middle of NYC butt naked and hang him Hussein style in front of the world.
Posted by Aced
Member since Jul 2013
1672 posts
Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:33 am to
quote:

The idea that gun bans affect violence is a fantasy. Any normal person knows this.


True just a bizarre coincidence the country with the most guns and most lenient gun laws in the developed world also happens to have the most mass shootings by miles.
Posted by deathvalleyfreak43
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2008
14541 posts
Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:34 am to
SHUT UP BIGOT… you want our children to get killed?!?!?
Just shut up and give up your right to bare arms!!! The police will protect you… (ignore places like Nola/Chicago/LA where the police don’t do shite).
Posted by CocomoLSU
Inside your dome.
Member since Feb 2004
156603 posts
Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:34 am to
quote:

Australia's ban on guns did not lower violent crimes, murders, or suicides

Of course not. Murderers will still want to kill people, crazy/unstable people will still want to kill themselves, etc. Adding more laws to law-abiding citizens doesn't do anything to prevent shite like that since criminals don't give a frick about laws.

But common sense is far too gone in the world today.
Posted by Crowknowsbest
Member since May 2012
26956 posts
Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:36 am to
quote:

My fix is to bring back public hangings for shite like this. Obviously this dude is dead, but the TOPS shooter, walk him out in the middle of NYC butt naked and hang him Hussein style in front of the world.

Yes, homicidal and suicidal sociopaths looking to get famous will be very deterred by this punishment.
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
19568 posts
Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:37 am to
quote:

True just a bizarre coincidence the country with the most guns and most lenient gun laws in the developed world also happens to have the most mass shootings by miles.


I know dimwits like you continually attempt such lame arguments but if you could read beyond the 7th grade level you'd know what you uttered is complete bullshite.
Posted by stout
Porte du Lafitte
Member since Sep 2006
182380 posts
Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:37 am to
quote:

also happens to have the most mass shootings by miles.



By what definition?


quote:

The U.S. government has never defined mass shooting as a separate category of crime, and there is not yet a broadly accepted definition of the term. In the 1980s, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) defined mass murderer as someone who “kills four or more people in a single incident (not including himself), typically in a single location” (Krouse and Richardson, 2015). In 2013, Congress defined mass killing as a single incident that leaves three or more people dead (Pub. L. 112-265, 2013). However, both definitions include many incidents that would not be considered mass shootings. Furthermore, neither definition was established for the purpose of data collection or statistical analyses. The FBI classification of mass murderer was established primarily with the aim of clarifying criminal profiling procedures (Ressler, Burgess, and Douglas, 1988), and the congressional definition was intended to clarify statutory authority for the provision of U.S. Department of Justice investigatory assistance requested by state and local agencies (Pub. L. 112-265, 2013). Thus, various news outlets, researchers, and law enforcement agencies often use different definitions when reporting on mass shootings, which can complicate our understanding of mass shooting trends and their relationship to gun policy.[2] Table 1 provides examples of the variation in the criteria set by some of the existing data sources on mass shootings in the United States. Depending on which data source is referenced, there were somewhere between six and 503 mass shootings and between 60 and 628 mass shooting fatalities in 2019.



LINK
Posted by Salmon
I helped draft the email
Member since Feb 2008
86192 posts
Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:38 am to
the complete banning of anything has never worked in the history of human existence

you cannot ban desire and will and as long as things exist that people want, desire and will, will defeat legislation

Posted by 632627
LA
Member since Dec 2011
15117 posts
Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:39 am to
quote:

The idea that gun bans affect violence is a fantasy. Any normal person knows this.


I’m not for gun bans, but let’s at least be honest, gun bans would curb acts of mass violence.
Posted by Aubie Spr96
lolwut?
Member since Dec 2009
44421 posts
Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:40 am to
quote:

Yea but it did make it way easy for the Australian government to subjugate its citizens during Covid


Can't have COVID internment camps with an armed populace.
Posted by stout
Porte du Lafitte
Member since Sep 2006
182380 posts
Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:43 am to
quote:

gun bans would curb acts of mass violence.



I'm not 100% sure it would, and even if it did, the question then becomes do you trade more overall violence (as Australia saw) for fewer mass shootings?
Posted by SulphursFinest
Lafayette
Member since Jan 2015
11699 posts
Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:46 am to
TOPS guy specifically said he didn’t want to die. He would rather 3 hot meals a day and a bed to sleep in, with free health care.
Posted by Klark Kent
Houston via BR
Member since Jan 2008
74858 posts
Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:46 am to
quote:

True just a bizarre coincidence the country with the most guns and most lenient gun laws in the developed world also happens to have the most mass shootings by miles.


back today to drop in some overly dramatic thoughts, then disappear when presented with logic?
Posted by Clames
Member since Oct 2010
19568 posts
Posted on 5/25/22 at 8:47 am to
quote:

I’m not for gun bans, but let’s at least be honest, gun bans would curb acts of mass violence.



No, it would do no such thing. It happens in every country even those with complete bans on civilian possession of firearms. Every major US city has incidents of mass violence by people who are categorically banned from owning firearms. If you want to be honest, try thinking more and come up with an honest argument.
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