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re: Alton Sterling shooting - discussion thread
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:46 pm to Box Geauxrilla
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:46 pm to Box Geauxrilla
quote:
Off topic, but do you have a damn job? Jesus Christ, you and Salmon have been arguing with people in this thread for the past 6 hours.
boss is on vacation
0
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:47 pm to Dire Wolf
It will come down to him going for the gun and weather it can be proven that he wasn't. Period. If there's evidence that he wasn't going for it and nothing to contradict that, then the officers can legally shoot him. The problem is 1) he had a gun on him. And 2) he was struggling. From being tased to physically fighting back.
Basically, no way these guys are guilty of murder.
Basically, no way these guys are guilty of murder.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:47 pm to Dire Wolf
quote:
2 people trained to detain people
We aren't talking MMA submission experts here
quote:
You can think sterling was in the wrong
I do
quote:
but still think cops went overboard by shooting him 6 times
I don't know how many shots it took to stop him. That part wasn't on video
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:48 pm to FelicianaTigerfan
quote:
We aren't talking MMA submission experts here
they should be though, right?
shouldn't cops be trained professionals at submission holds?
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:48 pm to Dire Wolf
quote:
cops went overboard by shooting him 6 times
This is something else the general public needs to learn. When an officer decides to shoot, you do not shoot in the arm, or the leg or in the air hoping that will distract or slow down the perp. You shoot until the perp is no longer a threat. This is taught in the Academy, in the Military and in Concealed Handgun courses.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:49 pm to deaconjones35
quote:
This is something else the general public needs to learn. When an officer decides to shoot, you do not shoot in the arm, or the leg or in the air hoping that will distract or slow down the perp. You shoot until the perp is no longer a threat. This is taught in the Academy, in the Military and in Concealed Handgun courses.
nobody gets this.
once a cop decides to fire his weapon the perp is as good as dead. he fires until the threat is no more.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:49 pm to Salmon
(no message)
This post was edited on 7/6/16 at 1:55 pm
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:49 pm to slackster
quote:
If that is not what they're supposed to do in that situation, some of the blame will shift to them for escalating the situation.
They'd already tried to taser him so tackling him isn't "escalating" anything. The only thing that could be considered escalating the situation would be shooting him, at that point.
From tackling to taser would be escalating.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:50 pm to crkelly91
I bet somebody had a beef with this dude and called the cops to screw him over.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:50 pm to deaconjones35
And even at point blank range, one 9mm bullet out of a handgun make take a pretty significant amount of time to incapacitate someone. If it doesn't hit the brain stem or spinal cord, they'll still be very capable of shooting back for a period of time.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:50 pm to ell_13
quote:
I don't think the heavy stuff is gonna come down for quite awhile
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:51 pm to Paddyshack
FWIW, I work in NBR about 3 miles from the incident. Starting to get a little cloudy with a some thunder. Very eerie feeling here. Have heard police sirens off and on for some time now.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:51 pm to crkelly91
I don't know if anyone else mentioned this yet, but shortly after they get him on the ground, Sterling starts mumbling...and you can pretty clearly hear him say "I'm gonna frick you up".
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:51 pm to RB10
quote:
Do you want a cop's first reaction to be pulling their weapon every time it's determined there's a threat?
No, not necessarily. They went through what I would deem viable alternatives (Taser twice). The contention is whether or not tackling him was the next best option at that point. Maybe it was. Maybe that is protocol. But if it is, it seems illogical, and if it isn't, they need to answer that.
I think we all agree that if Sterling complies none of this is an issue, but that does not simply excuse any an all actions taken by the officers.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:52 pm to Salmon
quote:
shouldn't cops be trained professionals at submission holds?
They were until the choke hold was banned
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:52 pm to OneMoreTime
quote:
It looked like his right arm was under the car, which made it much harder for them to secure it.
If that's the case, the gun could have been under the car from the tackle & in arms reach and the officers didn't notice it at first since it was at night and hard to see.
Their sudden reaction of "GUN" sounded like genuine surprise & fear.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:53 pm to RB10
quote:
Do you want a cop's first reaction to be pulling their weapon every time it's determined there's a threat?
What people don't think about when they say "pull your gun on him and order him to the ground" is what do you do when your gun is in your hand and the guy comes at you? Once you pull the gun, you have turned it into a shooting situation if the guy doesn't comply.
These officers were 100% in the right to not pull their gun until the situation became a deadly force encounter. It became a deadly force encounter when the one officer recognized the presence of a firearm on the deceased and verbalized that fact. The other officer doesn't even shoot immediately. He points his weapon at the suspect and gives a verbal command "don't move."
If the suspect had gone completely limp at that point, there wouldn't have been a shooting. But he doesn't. He moves the other arm more.
WHAT is the officer supposed to do at that point? Wait and see if he shoots his partner? NO. He is armed and you have both displayed your intent to shoot and verbalized it. He moves, you shoot him. And you continue shooting until the threat is neutralized.
Textbook use of force. In fact, the shooting would have been justified without the verbal warning. That is hard case law. You aren't required to provide verbal warning if it isn't practical.
But none of this will matter to the masses. They want blood and the politicos will give them some.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:53 pm to slackster
quote:
I think we all agree that if Sterling complies none of this is an issue, but that does not simply excuse any an all actions taken by the officers.
Actually, I'm pretty sure officers can subdue you by any means necessary if you're resisting.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:54 pm to Box Geauxrilla
quote:
Off topic, but do you have a damn job? Jesus Christ, you and Salmon have been arguing with people in this thread for the past 6 hours.
Slow day at the office to say the least.
Posted on 7/6/16 at 1:54 pm to RB10
baton rouge is such a war zone
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