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Message
re: Alabama cops shoots man exiting his vehicle with his wallet
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:34 am to Rebelgator
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:34 am to Rebelgator
quote:
Please stop doing that.
Why? It's true. Every single routine traffic stop I have been involved with includes the officer reaching for his firearm when I reach for my license and ID. For the record, I'm a middle aged white guy in a newer 4 door sedan.
We've militarized our police force, dropped them into a War on Drugs and a War on Terror, and turned them loose on the public. It's a wonder there aren't more shootings like this.
1
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:34 am to Impotent Waffle
quote:
You don't use deadly force based off an assumption.
we have no clue what the cop saw...based on the court ruling it was ruled that he was reasonable to conclude the victim had a gun...do you dispute that?
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:34 am to Pecker
quote:
Do you think it's reasonable to assume that (rightly or wrongly) the officer felt threatened?
it's reasonable if we're saying just the fact that he felt threatened
however, it was NOT reasonable to actually feel threatened
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:34 am to Pecker
Every accident I've ever been in (only around 3) I've exited the vehicle when the officer arrived, with paperwork in hand. Pulled over, I stay, accident I get out. Isn't that pretty common?
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:34 am to ell_13
quote:
Did the driver know this as he got out?
Are you assuming the driver should have made that assumption?
It's hard to say, honestly, if the driver knew the officer had his gun drawn. That's certainly the best argument you have. The main problem with that argument is the urgency in the officers voice when barking out orders. It was obvious that the officer was not reacting to this (for a litany of reasons already discussed) as a typical fender bender. I believe the victim would have been better served to make the assumption that the officer was on edge and should have stayed in the vehicle.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:35 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:seriously, why wasn't the truck driver shot then?
Seriously, when did they stop teaching people to sit in their vehicles with their hands on the steering wheel until the LEO got the the car and asked them to move?
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:35 am to Konkey Dong
quote:
Every accident I've ever been in (only around 3) I've exited the vehicle when the officer arrived, with paperwork in hand. Pulled over, I stay, accident I get out. Isn't that pretty common?
yes
this wasn't some high danger situation in an urban war zone
hell, what's really fricked up is to watch the reaction of the other driver. that dude was legit in danger
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:35 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
it's reasonable if we're saying just the fact that he felt threatened
however, it was NOT reasonable to actually feel threatened
You're exactly right. I agree completely.
He wrongly felt threatened and acted like a man who felt threatened.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:36 am to Konkey Dong
quote:you obviously should have gotten shot each and every time, you should feel lucky that you were spared.
Every accident I've ever been in (only around 3) I've exited the vehicle when the officer arrived, with paperwork in hand. Pulled over, I stay, accident I get out. Isn't that pretty common?
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:36 am to Pecker
quote:
I believe the victim would have been better served to make the assumption that the officer was on edge
well that's a great system
we pay the salaries of cops and must assume they're on edge and a threat to kill us for nothing
sounds reasonable
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:36 am to Pecker
quote:If I leave my house wide open and someone steals my TV, I played a part in my TV getting stolen...but it doesn't change the fact that a burglary was committed.
His being shot is evidence that it does matter, at least as it relates to being shot. Unless you believe that being shot is of no consequence
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:36 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:That's a bingo.
it's reasonable if we're saying just the fact that he felt threatened
however, it was NOT reasonable to actually feel threatened
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:37 am to Pecker
quote:
He wrongly felt threatened and acted like a man who felt threatened.
and if you do this and shoot someone, it's a crime
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:37 am to Pecker
quote:How could he have possibly known that BEFORE exiting the vehicle?
I believe the victim would have been better served to make the assumption that the officer was on edge and should have stayed in the vehicle.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:37 am to Pettifogger
quote:
If you watch the video, in actual (not sped up) time, the guy exits the vehicle uhh...poorly. It basically looks like he's trying to pull a gun, and it's awkward and I'd be alarmed if I was a cop.
That said, if they were responding to an accident, it seems bizarre the cop would have been in a position to shoot him upon this poor guy clumsily getting out of the vehicle.
I think everything you stated is reasonable. I think better training might help but sometimes you get cops who are simply not psychologically suited for the role.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:38 am to meauxjeaux2
This happened three years ago. So the original "Hands Up Don't Shoot." I don't remember the riots from this. Link to those?
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:38 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
and if you do this and shoot someone, it's a crime
I disagree. We realize (after the fact based on evidence the cop didn't have in the moment) that he had to reason to feel threatened.
For it to be a crime you would need to prove that he did not feel threatened and shot the victim for reasons not related to his feeling threatened. A motive would have to be established.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:39 am to meauxjeaux2
you saw the3 horror in the truck driver's face when he realized the cop was shooting? Then he held his hands up too.
No way a cop should be responding to a traffic incident like that. No excuse at all. Justice was not served here and you guys know it.
we cannot give police carte blanche to shoot people on whims.
No way a cop should be responding to a traffic incident like that. No excuse at all. Justice was not served here and you guys know it.
we cannot give police carte blanche to shoot people on whims.
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:39 am to Pecker
quote:
A motive would have to be established.
at the least, there should be a negligent injuring statute in Alabama that doesn't require "motive"
Posted on 3/13/17 at 11:39 am to shel311
quote:
ow could he have possibly known that BEFORE exiting the vehicle?
Well the officer was barking out orders as if this was not a typical fender bender. Or do we disagree on that point? We need to establish agreement on this one way or another before we proceed.
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