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re: A conversation about the role of men in societies with a lack of fathers, past and present
Posted on 5/10/22 at 7:11 am to fr33manator
Posted on 5/10/22 at 7:11 am to fr33manator
I think I heard Thomas Sowell say this once but like 2/3 of black kids are in single parent homes and like 1/44 Koreans are in single parent homes.
Pretty big difference
Pretty big difference
This post was edited on 5/10/22 at 7:11 am
1
Posted on 5/10/22 at 7:11 am to fr33manator
quote:
I think the main bullet point here is someone has to step up, or young people are doomed. What are your thoughts?
I’m thinking that while I would have enjoyed such a conversation, those who really need to be having these discussions are simply not having them, and therein lies the real problem.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 7:12 am to fr33manator
The world we live in today is just an obscure resemblance of the past, yet normalized to think that it is still similar. When born, a persons life was basically set in stone, and basically identical to their parents, their parents parents, and so on. There was no internal dialogue about being enough, or spending time wisely. Let’s not romanticize the past, the effects of poor relationships that men women and children saw were widespread. Being a good father, or husband is a fairly new concept. There was no youth culture, and children’s biggest influence was their parents not their peers. Children lived in a community we’re all relationships were initiated by their parents.
The speed at which technology, and social norms are changing it’s difficult for us to adapt and make the best choices.
Ester perel talks about how we traded Community for one person. Quotes from her below
Everything that we wanted from a traditional marriage – companionship, family, children, economic support, a best friend, a passionate lover, a trusted confidante, an intellectual equal — we are asking from one person what an entire village once provided. And couples are crumbling under the weight of so much expectation.
We come from a model where relationships, in our village lives, in our communal structures, were very clear. The community gave you your sense of identity. You knew who you were. You knew what was expected of you, and you knew how to behave. You had a lot of certainty, a lot of belonging, zero freedom.
And we have urbanized, and we have moved, and we have taken on radical individualism and aspirational materialism, and all of those things have created a playing field in which relationships are undergoing rapid changes. We have no idea how to handle them. Rules have been replaced by choices. But at the same time we have massive uncertainty and massive self-doubt. Every second book about relationships these days is about belonging and loneliness.
The speed at which technology, and social norms are changing it’s difficult for us to adapt and make the best choices.
Ester perel talks about how we traded Community for one person. Quotes from her below
Everything that we wanted from a traditional marriage – companionship, family, children, economic support, a best friend, a passionate lover, a trusted confidante, an intellectual equal — we are asking from one person what an entire village once provided. And couples are crumbling under the weight of so much expectation.
We come from a model where relationships, in our village lives, in our communal structures, were very clear. The community gave you your sense of identity. You knew who you were. You knew what was expected of you, and you knew how to behave. You had a lot of certainty, a lot of belonging, zero freedom.
And we have urbanized, and we have moved, and we have taken on radical individualism and aspirational materialism, and all of those things have created a playing field in which relationships are undergoing rapid changes. We have no idea how to handle them. Rules have been replaced by choices. But at the same time we have massive uncertainty and massive self-doubt. Every second book about relationships these days is about belonging and loneliness.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 7:12 am to fr33manator
People are supposed to do the duty/work put before them to do.
The more that people do this, the better things will be.
In life it is often difficult to know what it is that you should be doing. Lots of choices for careers, hobbies, etc.
It is NOT difficult to see that if you have a child, you should do the work of raising that child to the best of your ability.
Too many in society are failing to do their most important duties, and society suffers for it.
The more that people do this, the better things will be.
In life it is often difficult to know what it is that you should be doing. Lots of choices for careers, hobbies, etc.
It is NOT difficult to see that if you have a child, you should do the work of raising that child to the best of your ability.
Too many in society are failing to do their most important duties, and society suffers for it.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 7:20 am to fr33manator
quote:
How important is it to give guidance to young men in societies where fathers are lacking, for one reason or another? How was it done in the past when war and other hardships were the reason, and how can that apply to society today?
Single moms were taboo and there was no welfare state so women re married in order to have a stable home provided. Also kids then were told to suck it up it was part of life. Many got part time jobs to help out at home and became the man of the house at a young age. Basically the lack of welfare and society coddling them made them have to be men or hungry
Posted on 5/10/22 at 7:24 am to LSUfan4444
Thanks for this. Just added it to my Kindle.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 7:34 am to fr33manator
Who prepares brisket with a friend and talk about this shite? When I am around male friends, we talk sports and make dick, tits, pussy and retard jokes.
Seriously, kids need a primary male in their life. Not having a male in one's life might be part of the reason for the spike in trans people.
Don't get me wrong, they also need a female present in their lives as well, but life in about balance and a part of that balance is having a primary male and female in one's life.
I think its healthy for kids to have siblings as well. Everyone needs to be kept in check growing up.
Seriously, kids need a primary male in their life. Not having a male in one's life might be part of the reason for the spike in trans people.
Don't get me wrong, they also need a female present in their lives as well, but life in about balance and a part of that balance is having a primary male and female in one's life.
I think its healthy for kids to have siblings as well. Everyone needs to be kept in check growing up.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 7:39 am to Mike da Tigah
quote:
I’m thinking that while I would have enjoyed such a conversation, those who really need to be having these discussions are simply not having them, and therein lies the real problem.
Yes, I agree. A very interesting sociological question and very thought provoking. But, we can only hope that the same type conversations are being had by those mostly affected by these numbers. By what most of us see around us, it’s simply not taking root. In a previous role, I managed a team that employed a lot of young black mothers. I know it’s anecdotal, but only 2 or 3 out of 20+ had a partner in raising their children. Many were almost unemployable because of the typical children sickness and transportation issues. A lot of it would have been softened by a partner in the child rearing process. It left me feeling sorry for most of them but then to see the quickly get pregnant again was pretty disheartening. There is no way those kids are properly educated, socialized and treated medically as needed. The mother stands no chance of career advancement when she can only make it to work on time 3 times a week. I’ll never understand how birth control isn’t seemingly understood by many in our poorer communities.
I don’t know, I’m not really getting my point across and have to run out the door for work.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 7:42 am to OweO
quote:coping divorced dudes
Who prepares brisket with a friend and talk about this shite?
Posted on 5/10/22 at 7:43 am to OweO
quote:
Who prepares brisket with a friend and talk about this shite?
Well, it started when we were talking about a stepson who had been on a bad path when he was younger and yearning for that male guidance and how having that presence in his life and having someone actually give a shite about him and care enough to discipline and teach him completely changed his outlook and attitude. And how there are many young men out there that aren’t necessarily bad, but aimless and directionless.
Without a man or father to guide them they will be consumed by the darkness, but if someone (and they are begging for it whether they realize it or not) takes them under their wing and has patience with them, they can become fine young men.
And then about how that gad to happen at least to some degree in post war societies, else they would have been overrun with bands of ruffians.
But don’t worry Christopher, We made plenty of vulgar jokes along the way.
And you don’t have any friends.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 7:44 am to fr33manator
quote:
And you don’t have any friends.
I know, I post that to make people think I do.
quote:
Without a man or father to guide them they will be consumed by the darkness, but if someone (and they are begging for it whether they realize it or not) takes them under their wing and has patience with them, they can become fine young men.
This is why every male should play football in high school.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 7:45 am to fr33manator
You sound like the life of the party.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 7:46 am to OweO
quote:So, regarding the last two categories, the jokes are literally on you.
When I am around male friends, we talk sports and make dick, tits, pussy and retard jokes.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 7:46 am to OweO
quote:.
This is why every male should play football in high school.
What position did you play? Blocking Sled?
Posted on 5/10/22 at 7:54 am to fr33manator
As someone who had to face the real fact of bot being alive anymore for my kids it gave me a lot of time to think.
I believe now a lot more than I did about the important role of God in a families life.
Children need a Father. If I wouldn't be around I cant think of a better Father to have available to them as a guide.
Perhaps back then with the prevalence of Christian values they found God helping fill a vacuum left by a deceased father.
Take your kids to church. I've laid in a hospital bed long enough with just my thoughts to learn some pretty hard life lessons.
I believe now a lot more than I did about the important role of God in a families life.
Children need a Father. If I wouldn't be around I cant think of a better Father to have available to them as a guide.
Perhaps back then with the prevalence of Christian values they found God helping fill a vacuum left by a deceased father.
Take your kids to church. I've laid in a hospital bed long enough with just my thoughts to learn some pretty hard life lessons.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 7:54 am to fr33manator
Waiting for this response....
Posted on 5/10/22 at 7:58 am to OweO
quote:
Who prepares brisket with a friend and talk about this shite?
Men. Not just grown up biological males but actual men.
quote:
When I am around male friends, we talk sports and make dick, tits, pussy and retard jokes.
If that’s all you talk about at almost 40, you’re around emotionally and intellectually stunted children. Grow up.
I’m not saying you can’t make those jokes, hell we all SHOULD from time to time, but to exclusively?
quote:
Seriously, kids need a primary male in their life. Not having a male in one's life might be part of the reason for the spike in trans people.
Agree for the need for a male. Not sure about the whole trans thing. I thinks that’s a LOT more to do with progressives not ever wanting to offend someone and the societal trend that a victim is the most noble thing you can be.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 8:30 am to fr33manator
Used to be that women, in this type of situation, had to depend upon extended family or quickly remarry. So, although the biological father was not present, there was still a biological grandfather, uncle or step father that fit the father figure roll.
Welfare and female financial independence, although good for the mother, has been a detriment to children and may, in the long run, be worse overall.
Welfare and female financial independence, although good for the mother, has been a detriment to children and may, in the long run, be worse overall.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 8:36 am to fr33manator
You may have to go through an extremely stupid mama that has the right to make all decisions. Actual quote I heard on TV about gang banger who was gunned down in gang violence, 'I wanted Budgie to give me a baby. Budgie make a pretty baby.'
Posted on 5/10/22 at 8:38 am to OweO
quote:
This is why every male should play football in high school.
Not just football, any physical sport; basketball, wrestling, baseball, something that requires young men to give great physical effort and discipline. A task that makes them struggle physically.
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