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re: A conversation about the role of men in societies with a lack of fathers, past and present
Posted on 5/10/22 at 5:08 am to fr33manator
Posted on 5/10/22 at 5:08 am to fr33manator
IMO, it's about the nobility of why those previous generations' fathers didn't return. They didn't abandon their family for selfish reasons, but the most selfless. There's a reason we venerate our heroes. It's to inspire.
It was also a matter of national importance and duty to come together and mentor the orphans of war. Who more deserving? And if for no other reason than to give them a reason to serve their nation in its time of need. "Your father died doing his duty. Let's not allow his sacrifice be in vain." That's a powerful message.
The issue today isn't one of war but - neglect. How sad to know that your father isn't dead, but in another part of town or another state. He just won't visit or call. He's doing okay. He just doesn't care about you. That's a bitter pill to swallow and I could see it leading to a lot of resentment and hate.
Want to build better people? Need to lay the foundation of morality and ethics. Good men and women are no accident of nature. It's a committed act of love and sacrifice.
It was also a matter of national importance and duty to come together and mentor the orphans of war. Who more deserving? And if for no other reason than to give them a reason to serve their nation in its time of need. "Your father died doing his duty. Let's not allow his sacrifice be in vain." That's a powerful message.
The issue today isn't one of war but - neglect. How sad to know that your father isn't dead, but in another part of town or another state. He just won't visit or call. He's doing okay. He just doesn't care about you. That's a bitter pill to swallow and I could see it leading to a lot of resentment and hate.
Want to build better people? Need to lay the foundation of morality and ethics. Good men and women are no accident of nature. It's a committed act of love and sacrifice.
This post was edited on 5/10/22 at 5:09 am
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Posted on 5/10/22 at 5:11 am to fr33manator
If I was your father I would have abandoned you for never shutting tf up.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 5:15 am to fr33manator
What would the world would be like today if every mother and father loved and nurtured all of their children? Would we have less poverty, less mental illness, less crime?
Posted on 5/10/22 at 5:26 am to LSUtoBOOT
quote:
What would the world would be like today if every mother and father loved and nurtured all of their children? Would we have less poverty, less mental illness, less crime?
Without a doubt.
The main issue I see today is that a lot of people don't understand that love isn't the same as friendship. Doing what's right is rarely what is most easy.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 5:27 am to fr33manator
Obviously. We are a social species, as the left loves to remind people. If you even vaguely care about society at large, which is fair because you live in it, you have a vested interest in seeing its success.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 5:29 am to fr33manator
thoughtful post. Ill hang up and listen. good work
Posted on 5/10/22 at 5:34 am to fr33manator
quote:
We started talking about post World War Europe and the Orient. And how many fathers never came home to their sons but, seemingly, the men in that society managed to deal with that lack of natural fathers, and how important that is in those situations especially.
What percentage of children in those countries had fathers die in the war, and hence were fatherless? It probably wasn’t some huge percentage if I had t guess.
Because of this, it seems like it would be a lot easier for uncles to step up and help serve that role, especially since families were larger back then, making the chance of having multiple uncles much more likely.
Even with the war killing as many people as it did, I’d be willing to bet the fatherless home statistic was less than what America currently has.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 5:35 am to fr33manator
check out the book "Iron John" by Robert Bly. Its all about this topic
Posted on 5/10/22 at 5:38 am to fr33manator
quote:
What are your thoughts?
Anything I would say is contained in this book
This post was edited on 5/10/22 at 5:39 am
Posted on 5/10/22 at 5:47 am to fr33manator
Older buddy of mine was probably the closest I came to a father figure other than my own. Went to church with us. Cool dude--took me to my first few LSU and Saints games. He was probably 15 years older than me and 15 years younger than my dad.
It was a good deal for me as an only child to get exposure outside my four walls. Also, he took me to Time Saver in Kenner after a preseason Saints game one Saturday night, and I got to see my first-ever hooker. And, my second, third, and fourth hooker. And, a couple of drug dealers.
That was a wild and wacky place for a 12 year old FCP. I would connect the dots later that the "New Orleans Ladies" we encountered were likely cohorts of the young lady who would bring down Jimmy Swaggart Ministries some months later.
It was a good deal for me as an only child to get exposure outside my four walls. Also, he took me to Time Saver in Kenner after a preseason Saints game one Saturday night, and I got to see my first-ever hooker. And, my second, third, and fourth hooker. And, a couple of drug dealers.
That was a wild and wacky place for a 12 year old FCP. I would connect the dots later that the "New Orleans Ladies" we encountered were likely cohorts of the young lady who would bring down Jimmy Swaggart Ministries some months later.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 5:49 am to LSUfan4444
quote:
Anything I would say is contained in this book
Im intrigued. Whats this about?
Posted on 5/10/22 at 5:50 am to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
What percentage of children in those countries had fathers die in the war, and hence were fatherless? It probably wasn’t some huge percentage if I had t guess.
It’s hard to come up with an exact figure, but a good estimate is that 10 million military-age adult males (in Europe) died in World War II.
If we assume, 30 percent had had a child, that’s 3 million fathers. And if we assume that they had somewhere between 1 and 2 children before they died, that’s 4.5 million fatherless children just among the men who went into the military.
Conservatively, let’s half that number and say 2 million.
In 1945, the population of Europe was about more 560 million. A rough estimate would be that approximately 33.3 percent were under the age of 20. That’s rough 184 million. But for the sake of having a nice round number, let’s say 200 million.
So, roughly 1 percent of European children were made fatherless by World War II as a direct result of fathers being in combat. If you double it to account for civilian fathers being killed, then it’s probably 2 percent overall.
Edit: Countries like Britain, which were largely insulated from the combat that occurred on the continental mainland probably fared better. Probably the number of fatherless children skyrockets to 10 or even 20 percent in Germany and Russia.
This post was edited on 5/10/22 at 5:54 am
Posted on 5/10/22 at 6:03 am to jamiegla1
quote:
Im intrigued. Whats this about?
God designed men to be dangerous, says John Eldredge. Simply look at the dreams and desires written in the heart of every boy: To be a hero, to be a warrior, to live a life of adventure and risk. Sadly, most men abandon those dreams and desires-aided by a Christianity that feels like nothing more than pressure to be a "nice guy." It is no wonder that many men avoid church, and those who go are often passive and bored to death. In this provocative book, Eldredge gives women a look inside the true heart of a man and gives men permission to be what God designed them to be-dangerous, passionate, alive, and free!
The Wound
This post was edited on 5/10/22 at 6:07 am
Posted on 5/10/22 at 6:06 am to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
It’s hard to come up with an exact figure, but a good estimate is that 10 million military-age adult males (in Europe) died in World War II.
Your estimate is low by at least 5 million. Germany alone had over 4 million military men killed.
This post was edited on 5/10/22 at 6:08 am
Posted on 5/10/22 at 6:11 am to fr33manator
The big difference is the majority of those fathers died defending their country. Unlike the fathers of today, who have no accountability for their children.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 6:14 am to Saint Alfonzo
I was trying to come up with a conservative estimate. If you wish, multiply the figure I came up with (2 percent) by 1.667 and add 1 for good measure.
4.334 percent.
4.334 percent.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 6:37 am to fr33manator
quote:that's pretty gay TBH.
Prepping a brisket with a friend tonight who was born in Apartheid S. Africa and grew up in communist Poland. We got to talking, as we do, about big concepts, mainly the role of men in societies with a shortage of fathers.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 6:39 am to FLBooGoTigs1
quote:
Statics prove that children that have fathers in their lives get better educations, live longer and have a better chance of not being incarcerated.
I've read that a single father provides about the same stability as a two parent home with little drop off.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 6:59 am to fr33manator
I strongly agree that a father figure is an important facet of childhood development for both boys and girls. However I think the strong family nucleus is more important than just the father figure alone.
In my own childhood I blessed with a great dad. However, the mother presence I needed was for the most part absent. I never realized until I was an adult the impact that it had on me.
Alas my wife and I strive to give our daughters the best childhood possible that is based around a strong family nucleus. One that demonstrates love and affection towards one another and towards the two of them.
In my own childhood I blessed with a great dad. However, the mother presence I needed was for the most part absent. I never realized until I was an adult the impact that it had on me.
Alas my wife and I strive to give our daughters the best childhood possible that is based around a strong family nucleus. One that demonstrates love and affection towards one another and towards the two of them.
Posted on 5/10/22 at 7:05 am to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
If you double it to account for civilian fathers being killed, then it’s probably 2 percent overall. Edit: Countries like Britain, which were largely insulated from the combat that occurred on the continental mainland probably fared better. Probably the number of fatherless children skyrockets to 10 or even 20 percent in Germany and Russia.
Compare that to the US population today and remember those men died. They weren’t absent, unknown fathers. Their societies were more resilient, more accountable, more stable than what we have today in America.
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