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Message
re: NBA Offseason officially kicks off, Ingram’s days in NOLA coming to an end per Stein
Posted on 7/10/24 at 11:04 am to Dantheman504
Posted on 7/10/24 at 11:04 am to Dantheman504
quote:
My comment has always been I like Jose but we can improve.
The defense is either "no we cant" or "Jose is a minimum guy"
What the frick does that have to do with stating that we can improve backup PG.
I don't want to get into several pages arguments just because y'all are fricking simple minded.
The point is that you miss the forest for the trees. We don't have an unlimited budget, so it doesn't make sense to spend money to upgrade a position where we already have a serviceable backup. No one thinks Jose is the best player in the world, and yes for the 100th time Tyus is better than him. But it doesn't make sense to spend money on a backup point guard when your starting PG has zero health concerns and is okay playing 34+ MPG.
3
Posted on 7/10/24 at 11:08 am to NOSHAU
quote:
Is Kessler worth the equivalent of 2 1sts though
If you’re betting on yourself to be a non play in team, then I do think 2 1sts is a fine value for Kessler. Say we had picks 22 and 24 for those picks, then getting Kessler on a great deal for a year and probably a decent deal going forward would be worth it
Posted on 7/10/24 at 11:09 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
The point is that you miss the forest for the trees. We don't have an unlimited budget, so it doesn't make sense to spend money to upgrade a position where we already have a serviceable backup. No one thinks Jose is the best player in the world, and yes for the 100th time Tyus is better than him. But it doesn't make sense to spend money on a backup point guard when your starting PG has zero health concerns and is okay playing 34+ MPG.
With the holes on this roster in the frontcourt, it blows my mind anyone could focus so hard on the backup PG spot.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 11:10 am to Epic Cajun
I must be really stupid cause I agree with you.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 11:11 am to NOSHAU
quote:
I see Hawkins as a potential replacement for CJ after the season.
Agreed. Especially if they end up keeping BI you have to dump CJ the following year and already have a ready made replacement.
Put another way, the Pels have been employing a Center by Committee strategy, and they have filled that committee by:
Favors - 2 2nds
Jaxson Hayes - #8 pick
Adams - 1st, 2 2nds
JV - 1st (became 2nds IIRC but they traded a 1st)
Nance - Josh Hart (probably late 1st round pick value)
EJ Liddell - 2nd round pick
Karlo Matkovic - 2nd round pick
Missi - 1st round pick
I'm not saying we got no value out of all of that, just that that is a lot of draft capital to spend on a center committee, and we want to trade Hawkins and a 1st for another committee member?
I'm leaning towards waiting until we see minimum FA centers aren't working before we throw more draft picks at the center committee.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 11:12 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
The point is that you miss the forest for the trees. We don't have an unlimited budget, so it doesn't make sense to spend money to upgrade a position where we already have a serviceable backup. No one thinks Jose is the best player in the world, and yes for the 100th time Tyus is better than him. But it doesn't make sense to spend money on a backup point guard when your starting PG has zero health concerns and is okay playing 34+ MPG.
And I have acknowledged this, along with agreeing with it. Along with saying I like Jose and that I actually don't want to lose Jose if its not necessary.
The people I'm arguing with literally cant imagine a Pelicans team without Jose. Its fricking weird.
We also don't know what Jose makes after next year so we easily could be having this convo next season
Posted on 7/10/24 at 11:15 am to Dantheman504
quote:
Buddy, its very clear that I'm capable of having conversations with people if they are willing to not be one sided or so stuck on a stupid arse point that they miss the overall post.
my man the Dan, many people have tried to reason with you on this, and you simply call them idiots for giving you logical reasons to your one sided argument.
I'll gladly have a conversation with you next offseason on the backup PG position. That will be the time to talk about it, assuming Jose doesn't get an extension this offseason.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 11:19 am to Dantheman504
quote:
I'm simply acknowledging that we can/ should upgrade from Jose because he's not an all-star and he's a minimum salary bench player with upside.
So if a backup role player isnt' an all-star we should upgrade him?
Posted on 7/10/24 at 11:29 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
my man the Dan, many people have tried to reason with you on this, and you simply call them idiots for giving you logical reasons to your one sided argument
I'll gladly have a conversation with you next offseason on the backup PG position. That will be the time to talk about it, assuming Jose doesn't get an extension this offseason.
quote:
Yeah Jose is a better bball player than Tyus Jones. My bad.
I'd rather Jose than Tyus Jones, even if they made the same money.
My Tard Teddy, I would rather not have PG discussions with you next year. Mainly because your dumb arse comments and arguing is what caused that.
You'll gladly have a conversation or you'll gladly argue stupid points and then back track like you weren't being an overdramatic frick the whole time?
See I tried to reason and you threw out ridiculous comments and held stern on "Jose or die". Have a conversation instead of dramatic responses (like last page bringing up Tyus for no reason).
This post was edited on 7/10/24 at 11:33 am
Posted on 7/10/24 at 11:30 am to TeddyPadillac
Apparently we are also back in the early 80s where neither the cap nor a luxury tax are a concern.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 11:40 am to NOSHAU
The real question is - how much will kessler also cost you in 2 years for it to be worthwhile.
The picks should be out of lotto picks anyway, given you should be able to be a playoff team for 3 years given health and stability.
He's good at two things: rebounding, defense/anchor
He's bad at: scoring, spacing, screens, free throws
That being said - he's a limited role player who's going to give you 20 minutes. He hasn't proven to be able to give you more than that despite his positive defense
The picks should be out of lotto picks anyway, given you should be able to be a playoff team for 3 years given health and stability.
He's good at two things: rebounding, defense/anchor
He's bad at: scoring, spacing, screens, free throws
That being said - he's a limited role player who's going to give you 20 minutes. He hasn't proven to be able to give you more than that despite his positive defense
Posted on 7/10/24 at 11:41 am to PELsu
quote:
Jordan Hawkins and a first round pick for Kessler.
Why should we overpay? Hawkins has a more valuable tool and was a higher draft pick than Kessler only a year later.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 11:44 am to Galactic Inquisitor
I’d prefer to keep Hawkins and trade an extra pick instead but people proposing this are likely looking at the roster cost and acknowledging that Griff will be leaned on to cut salary.
That means either moves at the margins or sending out someone like BI or CJ with us getting a smaller salary and a big arse TPE back.
That means either moves at the margins or sending out someone like BI or CJ with us getting a smaller salary and a big arse TPE back.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 11:45 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
Why should we overpay? Hawkins has a more valuable tool and was a higher draft pick than Kessler only a year later.
Yeah the whole Kessler thing wreaks of desperation. Again Griff with this whole
BI thing has put himself at a severe disadvantage when it comes to trade talks with other teams. Teams know how desperately we need a center and will exploit that- hopefully Griff doesn’t fall for it.
This post was edited on 7/10/24 at 11:46 am
Posted on 7/10/24 at 11:51 am to Dantheman504
quote:
My Tard Teddy, I would rather not have PG discussions with you next year. Mainly because your dumb arse comments and arguing is what caused that.
You'll gladly have a conversation or you'll gladly argue stupid points and then back track like you weren't being an overdramatic frick the whole time?
overdramatic b/c you didn't like my opinion, or the stats i showed you that help my argument that Jose may be a better player than Tyus?
quote:
See I tried to reason and you threw out ridiculous comments and held stern on "Jose or die". Have a conversation instead of dramatic responses (like last page bringing up Tyus for no reason).
Nohting about what you've said has been reasoned. I always try to back up my opinions with stats or references. Doesn't mean my opinions are always right, b/c they aren't, but i least have some reasoning behind them and provide that insight.
You're the dumbass that attacked me for saying Jose is just a role player when talking about him not doing well against OKC, and then i backed up my statement with stats from two other similar role players from the same position in this years playoffs playing more minutes in certain series than others, just to point out that role players effectiveness are matchup dependent more often than not.
see how i provided some actual reasoning to my statement, and then went into further reasoning replying to your dumbass again on who actually important in a playoff series, and who's not, in my opinion of course.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 11:51 am to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
Why should we overpay? Hawkins has a more valuable tool and was a higher draft pick than Kessler only a year later.
I don’t necessarily disagree, nor do I disagree with those mentioning desperation. But I can all but guarantee the Jazz won’t trade Kessler for Hawkins. They will simply stand pat, and then what do we do?
And we no longer have any additional picks. And I would want protections on the pick(s). So trading two, with any sort of protection essentially locks up your drafts for the next 7 years.
It’s paying a first to reallocate our talent positionally. I don’t love it, but it’s viable as an option.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 12:03 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
You're the dumbass that attacked me for saying Jose is just a role player when talking about him not doing well against OKC, and then i backed up my statement with stats from two other similar role players from the same position in this years playoffs playing more minutes in certain series than others, just to point out that role players effectiveness are matchup dependent more often than not.
ATL actually made a simple comment stating
quote:
I feel like I'm the only one that noticed OKC played Jose off the court in the playoffs
To which you responded:
quote:
the playoffs are always matchup dependent
To which I responded:
quote:
And what is your point lol?
That Jose lost the matchup in the playoffs as stated above?
Was this supposed to be a defense?
To which you responded:
quote:
Tyus Jones would have won us the series i bet.
quote:
He's a role player. sometimes role players are really affective, sometimes they aren't.
All I did was ask what your point was because the statement was simply that JOSE got outplayed in the playoffs by his matchups.
I was confused by what TJ Mconnell or your responses had to do with his comment.
It was a weird defense to someone simply saying Jose struggled. In other words no one can say bad things about Jose because you will get emotional.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 12:09 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Again Griff with this whole
BI thing has put himself at a severe disadvantage when it comes to trade talks with other teams
Willie is more to blame than anyone regarding our center position.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 12:13 pm to Dantheman504
Ok bud.
Posted on 7/10/24 at 12:17 pm to TeddyPadillac
quote:
then i backed up my statement with stats from two other similar role players from the same position in this years playoffs playing more minutes in certain series than others, just to point out that role players effectiveness are matchup dependent more often than not.
So you backed up the statement "Jose got outplayed in the playoffs" by providing stats of how other players played?
I guess that was my confusion.
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