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Started By
Message
re: “Coach, I can win the game for this team. Leave me in."
Posted on 1/23/20 at 7:40 am to TigerinATL
Posted on 1/23/20 at 7:40 am to TigerinATL
I don't have a problem with pulling him. He was clearly trying to catch his breath on his free throws. While I wanted to win his debut, it's not worth risking his knee. I suspect they'll ramp him up some in the next game.
Frankly, we didn't lose that game because Zion was on a minutes restriction. We lost because Ingram, who has been our best scorer to date, had a terrible shooting night.
Frankly, we didn't lose that game because Zion was on a minutes restriction. We lost because Ingram, who has been our best scorer to date, had a terrible shooting night.
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Posted on 1/23/20 at 7:41 am to tgr4ever
Yes, they are being overly cautious. That is undeniable. Zion had a very simple, straight forward procedure. If he was able to meet his benchmarks set by the training staff there is no evidence that he is at any higher risk of re-injuring himself after this surgery. If you can find a player who re-injured himself because he came back too soon after a 13 week rehab for a partial meniscectomy I'd love to hear about it. This was a 6-8 week recovery that they turned into a 13 week recovery.
Now, saying all of that, I completely understand the approach that they are taking. If they want to be abundantly cautious there is absolutely nothing wrong with that in the big picture. However, the point of my earlier post was that if you are going to take that approach, then the VP of basketball operations shouldn't hold a press conference and state "he will not be on a minutes restriction." It opens you up to a situation like last night where the most talked about rookie in years is putting on a historic performance in the fourth qtr and you have to pull him for an arbitrary minutes restriction that you said didn't exist. It just isn't a good look.
As far as on court, playing any player for 3-4 minutes at a time is going to cause problems. There will be growing pains and I think that was obvious last night. Hopefully, Gentry will be able to figure out the best way to integrate him while he is on a 15-18 min restriction because I don't think playing him for 3-4 min at the beginning of each qtr is going to help anyone.
Now, saying all of that, I completely understand the approach that they are taking. If they want to be abundantly cautious there is absolutely nothing wrong with that in the big picture. However, the point of my earlier post was that if you are going to take that approach, then the VP of basketball operations shouldn't hold a press conference and state "he will not be on a minutes restriction." It opens you up to a situation like last night where the most talked about rookie in years is putting on a historic performance in the fourth qtr and you have to pull him for an arbitrary minutes restriction that you said didn't exist. It just isn't a good look.
As far as on court, playing any player for 3-4 minutes at a time is going to cause problems. There will be growing pains and I think that was obvious last night. Hopefully, Gentry will be able to figure out the best way to integrate him while he is on a 15-18 min restriction because I don't think playing him for 3-4 min at the beginning of each qtr is going to help anyone.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 8:24 am to TigerinATL
quote:
agree that it seems extreme and that there should be a more comfortable place in the middle. But Nelson built his sterling reputation by being one of the first to focus on bio-mechanics and is credited with prolonging and rehabbing many star player careers. He has way more credibility than a bunch of arm chair GMs on a message board that google medical conditions. It's been frustrating feeling guys that can help are healthy enough and not playing, but I think we need to give Nelson time to do his thing and see if it gets us what we all said we wanted
I have no problem with it. I don’t think the broadcasters should have focused on it, but he’s clearly not in basketball shape yet and you can tell he’s still thinking a lot about the biomechanical changes the training staff are making with him.
He’s going to fight changing his motions (how he jumps, how he runs...etc) until it becomes muscle memory. That’s probably not going to happen fully this season. I don’t mind them being extra cautious even if it costs us the playoffs. Next year is a lot more important. I just want to get him to cut some weight, keep working on mechanics and mobility and make it through the year healthy.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 8:57 am to GonadBallbarion
quote:Ok, you convinced me to side with you and against Aaron Nelson!
Whatever
Posted on 1/23/20 at 9:01 am to TrouserTrout
quote:Wasn't a reinjury but see Boogie Cousins.
At this time he isn’t in shape to play extended minutes. When someone is tired they have a better chance of getting injured or re injuring something
If we kept him in and with :30 left Zion popped an achilles while looking totally gassed, these exact same dudes yelling to leave him in would be crushing the organization for leaving him in.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 9:16 am to TigerinATL
I woke up emotionally removed from the game and realized that it's GAME 1. If this was GM 2 or GM 3, I'd bet my arse they'd leave him in. But it's the very first game, and the staff just has absolutely no idea how the knee will react to these minutes yet. They have no sample size.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 9:52 am to RIPMachoMan
quote:
Love the sentiment but get in shape and don’t get injured. Not our year big man
Just FYI - this “playing for the future” mentality is cancerous, especially to a fresh young team developing as pros.
If “It’s just one game” - there’s no problems with players taking the night off, loafing it, etc.
If there was an injury causing him pain, then yes, you pull him there, but sore muscles or being out of breath? Come on. The kid isn’t going to collapse on the floor playing 20 minutes total (they pulled him at 18 minutes)
Posted on 1/23/20 at 9:55 am to The Pirate King
quote:
Just FYI - this “playing for the future” mentality is cancerous, especially to a fresh young team developing as pros.
If “It’s just one game” - there’s no problems with players taking the night off, loafing it, etc.
Jesus lmao
Posted on 1/23/20 at 9:57 am to TigerinATL
Think I’ll go drop $100 on pels to win the west... going at 100 to 1 right now... risk vs reward..
Posted on 1/23/20 at 9:58 am to JohnnyKilroy
Do you not agree that rookies get a bad message when an organization forfeits a statement game with a few minutes left because of some phony minutes restriction?
The team was deflated after Zion was pulled and SA immediately went on a run.
The team was deflated after Zion was pulled and SA immediately went on a run.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 10:01 am to The Pirate King
quote:
Do you not agree that rookies get a bad message when an organization forfeits a statement game with a few minutes left because of some phony minutes restriction?
You must have been a huge dell demps fan
Posted on 1/23/20 at 10:10 am to The Pirate King
quote:Should we compare your qualifications/experience to Aaron Nelson?
If there was an injury causing him pain, then yes, you pull him there, but sore muscles or being out of breath? Come on. The kid isn’t going to collapse on the floor playing 20 minutes total (they pulled him at 18 minutes)
quote:Ok, so on the flip side, we should play Jrue and BI 45 minutes a game, right? Gotta get those Ws, they all matter right now more than the future
If “It’s just one game” - there’s no problems with players taking the night off, loafing it, etc.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 10:14 am to JohnnyKilroy
As has been said, pulling Zion wasn't what lost the game.
The fact that both BI and JH shot like arse is why we lost.
BI just was off, he tried to shoot through it late and pretty much sealed the loss. We went through a span where we got 5 or 6 straight stops late in the game and either turned it over or missed good looks.
It happens.
But, you have to be excited by Zion. And you also know that BI will have more good shooting nights than bad. I mean how big was the missed FT's late, which BI is usually $$$$. Again it happens.
The fact that both BI and JH shot like arse is why we lost.
BI just was off, he tried to shoot through it late and pretty much sealed the loss. We went through a span where we got 5 or 6 straight stops late in the game and either turned it over or missed good looks.
It happens.
But, you have to be excited by Zion. And you also know that BI will have more good shooting nights than bad. I mean how big was the missed FT's late, which BI is usually $$$$. Again it happens.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 10:27 am to The Pirate King
The message they’re sending is of you want to play you have to take care of your body.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 10:52 am to TigerinATL
Even better: the message that they are sending to future free agents is that we will protect your body, even if it costs us games. Pulling Zion will pay off in the long term.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 11:33 am to ThePistol
quote:
This was a 6-8 week recovery that they turned into a 13 week recovery.
They are changing how Zion moves his entire lower body. If they thrust him back in, he will injure something else sooner rather than later. If they change his mechanics now, his chance of severe injury goes down significantly.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 11:54 am to HurricaneTiger
Put the kid on a diet
Posted on 1/23/20 at 11:55 am to FMtTXtiger
quote:it really stinks that our world class training department hasn't thought of that, i'll send em an email!
Put the kid on a diet
Posted on 1/23/20 at 10:16 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
“Coach, I can win the game for this team. Leave me in."
I understand the big point about keeping him healthy to ensure long-term success for the team and long-term career for him with the team, but IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY BASKETBALL SENSE TO BENCH THE HOT HAND OF THE TEAM WHO LED YOU BACK WITH THE GAME ON THE LINE WITH ALL THE MOMENTUM IN THE WORLD AGAINST AN INTRACONFERENCE OPPONENT WHO RETAINS THE SAME POSITION AS US IN THE PLAYOFF RACE RELATIVELY SPEAKING. Cardinal sin in basketball to disrupt a material swing in momentum, that's HOW YOU LOSE GAMES.
Posted on 1/23/20 at 10:33 pm to SoulBrotha91
quote:
I understand the big point about keeping him healthy to ensure long-term success for the team and long-term career for him with the team, but IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY BASKETBALL SENSE TO BENCH THE HOT HAND OF THE TEAM WHO LED YOU BACK WITH THE GAME ON THE LINE WITH ALL THE MOMENTUM IN THE WORLD AGAINST AN INTRACONFERENCE OPPONENT WHO RETAINS THE SAME POSITION AS US IN THE PLAYOFF RACE RELATIVELY SPEAKING. Cardinal sin in basketball to disrupt a material swing in momentum, that's HOW YOU LOSE GAMES.
It's not about this game lmao. I don't think a single person, including gentry, would tell you it made basketball sense to pull him.
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