re: You can see everything

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She’s in the 99% of ability to manipulate even evidenced by some in the thread finding her naive, but even doing a basic dive into the defrauding scandal serves as plenty of proof she knowingly misled millions.

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Her father was literally part of Enron.

She dropped out of Stanford to explicitly to start a company in order to become a billionaire. Her entire raison d'etre was to claw her way to a billion dollars by any means necessary.

I'm not saying she started out intending to defraud people. I'm saying she took the exit to defrauding people without much hesitation or navel gazing. She was really good at it. She remains really good at it.

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was her whole deal an act in the movie?

the wide eyed idiot persona?

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I think so.

They're trying to do a repackaged version of that same scam .

#Youdothemath

I agree that it’s a must see

It’s one of the most fascinating movies I’ve seen in a long time. The way Nathan filmed it is very unusual. I like it. I also liked the friction between he and the Billy.
Didn’t care much for that actress who seemed like an airhead.

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The fact that he has power of attorney while she is in prison is the part that leaves some doubt.

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I thought about this too, but it makes sense when you think about the fact that she gets docked 70% of any income she has coming in because she’s ordered to repay the hundred million dollars plus that she owes. As I understand it from the settlement, she has to pay that back and his docked until she does. Might be the reason why they are not married legally.

I’m just speculating of course. I don’t know.

Which is kind of germane to the film. Nobody knows. It’s a commentary on documentaries in general. You can’t trust them to be “the truth” anymore than reality TV is “reality”. I thought Fielder did a brilliant job of illustrating this point.

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Didn’t care much for that actress who seemed like an airhead.

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oh wow, I thought bringing her in was easily the best part of the movie.

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They're trying to do a repackaged version of that same scam .

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One of my favorite parts was them talking to an expert and he says, yeah technology is advancing, they had a good idea, but what they were doing was all wrong. And Billy’s over there about to freak out.

Saw it last night and haven't really got to stew on it much and haven't read the thread but my initial reaction is that was pretty brilliant. I went in expecting it to be brilliant because I'm a Fielder fan, so it didn't disappoint.

I guess I'll talk about some of the people...

Elizabeth - Found her to be very likeable. There was honestly nothing in this that made me want to root against her. Whether it was genuine is a completely different story. As Nathan said, she is either being honest or she is the most manipulative person that has ever lived. I think it's a little bit, or maybe a lot of both. She was 100% being deceptive with Theranos' abilities, that really can't be argued. She's not dumb enough to not know that the way she described the machine is not an accurate description of it's capabilities. She scammed a lot f people and deserved jail time.

Billy - He's obviously a douche.I didn't find myself hating him as much as the movie wanted you to and by the end I was just like yeah he's controlling but as Nathan said, the two genuinely love each other. He's very protective of his wife and there's something to be said for that. Him having power of attorney was not a big deal at all even the Amanda Seyried wanted to act like it was. She's just a clueless actor. She's in prison and he's financially savvy and needs to be controlling the money. As broke as they pretend to be, they are not, they most likely have a ton of money and assets and he needs to be in control of that when she's in jail and can't handle day to day.

Amanda - Really enjoyed her being in the movie, that made for a great twist. Although I didn't like her opinion on most things honestly. She is defensive of her show and that is understandable. But in playing that role she was taught a lot of falsehood and it was clear it ingrained a bias. Again, which is understandable. Her hate of Billy was pretty obvious and honestly one of the ebst parts of the movie was when Billy roasted her about Charlie Kirk. I've never watched a Charlie Kirk video in my life until he was killed but it was hilarious he had the balls to say she's doing awful on social media because of her comments about him and she said "I hated that he was performative" and his response was "You're an actress" She was defensive of her show and he was defensive of his wife. Her bias really started to show after that though. She did a very good job playing Elizabeth though.

I loved that halfway through it became classic Nathan like a long episode of The Rehearsal. It starts one way and halfway in you're blown away by the direction it's going.

I never watched The Dropout, just the HBO documentary. Nothing about my opinion really changed about Elizabeth other than she is controllable. So maybe her Ex had a bigger role in the scam and should take more of the blame. She is more likeable than I expected and didn't come off as crazy as the previews made it seem. The close up shots were so well done and I think just the right amount of them. An entire movie of those close ups would have gotten old so he balanced that nicely.

4.75/5

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IDK that this is true

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Me not really changing my opinion of her is not really something that is up for debate of true or false. It's just simply my feelings towards her.

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The fact that you came away thinking she is likeable and controllable AFTER seeing the documentary shows just how manipulative she is.

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Not really. Fielder literally said she is either genuine or she is the most manipulative person ever. he wasn't even sure and he lived with her. I am saying she is both. I think she is genuine in some things and also a master manipulator.

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Also it wasn't semantics that got her in trouble. Walgreens doesn't sign on if she doesn't lead them to actually believe the machine could do what she said it could do.

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I said I think she needs to be in jail. She scammed people. That obviously isn't just her wording things differently. I know she knew it couldn't do the things she led people to believe.

Yea kind of what I was thinking towards the end of the movie. That's definitely not a bad thing.

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Fielder literally said she is either genuine or she is the most manipulative person ever. he wasn't even sure and he lived with her. I am saying she is both.

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i'm having a hard time coming up with a scenario in which the most manipulative person ever could l also be genuine.

"i'm the most faithful husband ever except for that i have cheated on my wife a few times"