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re: You can see everything
Posted on 10/25/26 at 9:01 pm to REG861
Posted on 10/25/26 at 9:01 pm to REG861
I think Elizabeth Holmes knew what she was doing all along and she still does. I think Billy is 100% being used for his family money and connections. She saw in him exactly what he is - narcissist who will go to any lengths to be in the spotlight and be the hero - and she’s letting him play that part so that she will have access to his money. I think she is a 100% predator.
Posted on 10/25/26 at 9:36 pm to ILurkThereforeIAm
quote:
He reminds me of a guy I knew from work who would talk around things. Like, instead of saying, "we can't afford that right now, can you lower your costs?" he would say something like, "I hear what you're saying and I respect the effort you put into your work, but at this moment we don't really have the financial bandwidth to take that on, can we revisit the original intent of the agreement and like, restructure it so that it's more suitable for both parties?"
I had the same reaction, both he and Liz employed purposely ambiguous corporate-speak throughout the movie.
This type of word choice is quite useful in large organizations, to "commit" to things but leave yourself an out/scope change with plausible deniability.
Because who knows what exactly was intended from intentionally ambiguous language.
This post was edited on 10/25/26 at 9:40 pm
Posted on 10/26/26 at 1:17 pm to Big_Sur
Finally went to watch this. Yes, Liz and Billy are creepy in their own ways, but the first half felt too long. Too many Nathan and Liz having a staring contest scenes. 
I didn't expect that it would really take off after Liz started serving her sentence. For me, Amanda really made this movie. And I happen to be in the middle of watching East of Eden on Netflix, so it was super weird seeing Adam Trask show up.
I didn't expect that it would really take off after Liz started serving her sentence.
For me, Amanda really made this movie. And I happen to be in the middle of watching East of Eden on Netflix, so it was super weird seeing Adam Trask show up. Posted on 10/26/26 at 1:43 pm to TouchedTheAxeIn82
quote:
And I happen to be in the middle of watching East of Eden on Netflix, so it was super weird seeing Adam Trask show up.
I finished East of Eden last night.. What's the connection with Adam Trask?
Posted on 10/26/26 at 2:29 pm to JDPndahizzy
quote:
I finished East of Eden last night.. What's the connection with Adam Trask?
I wasn't expecting Christopher Abbott to appear in this 'documentary'.
The construction of this movie is amazing. I was just reading up on why it came together the way it did. If it weren't for some inspired thinking and Emma Stone, this would have ended up a less interesting project and not have the word-of-mouth that is driving full theaters.
Posted on 10/26/26 at 7:49 pm to Sam Quint
quote:
I think Elizabeth Holmes knew what she was doing all along and she still does. I think Billy is 100% being used for his family money and connections. She saw in him exactly what he is - narcissist who will go to any lengths to be in the spotlight and be the hero - and she’s letting him play that part so that she will have access to his money. I think she is a 100% predator.
You may be right. The genius of this movie lies in large part in the ambiguity it creates. Interestingly, the part that Nathan and Seyfried seemed to think possibly exonerated Holmes - where she said, “I mean, I have no financial interest in this “ , or something like that - seemed to be forced and it seemed like she just added it to cover her bases. I wish I could remember the full quote but there was a second clause to it that sounded especially forced on her end.
Posted on 10/27/26 at 6:57 am to REG861
quote:
The genius of this movie lies in large part in the ambiguity it creates.
100%. Is she an earnest and naive entrepreneur or a manipulative sociopath? I can’t definitively make up my mind either way.
Posted on 10/27/26 at 7:59 am to REG861
quote:
where she said, “I mean, I have no financial interest in this “
yeah i think that was all planned by her and was in no way natrual.
Posted on 10/27/26 at 8:30 am to ILurkThereforeIAm
quote:I think she is a sociopath. Her device didn't work, it never worked, and she knew it didn't work. And yet she was out there flogging it anyway. The way she talks about Evans is frankly just nauseating.
100%. Is she an earnest and naive entrepreneur or a manipulative sociopath?
Her entire persona is/was fake, she is mentally ill. Posted on 10/27/26 at 8:32 am to ILurkThereforeIAm
quote:the way she acts in the movie is 100% an act. former employees have come out and said she would command rooms full of men she was never this timid woman being taken advantage of by powerful men.
100%. Is she an earnest and naive entrepreneur or a manipulative sociopath? I can’t definitively make up my mind either way.
Posted on 10/27/26 at 8:50 am to crazyLSUstudent
I thought it was interesting and entertaining. I wish he would have pressed her on the specifics of Theranos.
Were any results that you didn't agree with considered outliers and deleted? Were you aware of that? Who made that call? What was the reasoning for that?
Why go forward with Walgreens if the machine's capabilities were more theoretical than practical at the time?
Things like that?
Were any results that you didn't agree with considered outliers and deleted? Were you aware of that? Who made that call? What was the reasoning for that?
Why go forward with Walgreens if the machine's capabilities were more theoretical than practical at the time?
Things like that?
Posted on 10/27/26 at 9:06 am to ILurkThereforeIAm
quote:
maybe it was more Sonny than her and she blindly followed his lead without asking too many questions.
We really can't know that because Fielder didn't press those issues and when he broadly asked "What went wrong" she said IDK and he just took that answer.
Posted on 10/27/26 at 9:14 am to REG861
quote:
The genius of this movie lies in large part in the ambiguity it creates.
I left the theater thinking she was an autistic person who keeps getting taken advantage of by narcissistic men. but the further I get from seeing it and the more I think about it the more I see that she just pulled the wool over the audiences eyes the same way she did to investors. Her super power is that she is EXTREMELY believable. Like I mentioned in my previous 2 posts, there is no way for us to know what she did and did not know at Theranos because Fielder didn't ask those questions. But I find it much more likely that she is an extreme manipulator than an unfortunate victim.
Posted on 10/27/26 at 9:24 am to wesfau
Yup. There are no acting awards for a documentary…
Posted on 10/27/26 at 10:07 am to coolpapaboze
quote:
I had the same reaction initially but as I thought about it more I couldn’t help wonder how real Seyfried really is here. She’s a professional actress, is she being real or is she acting? I want to think she’s being genuine but I’m just not sure.
i think Amanda Seyfried's piece of this show was its own little interesting subplot. we got a really unique glimpse into what it means to be a hollywood actress and what these people are really like.
as an actress, she was quite remarkable. watching her switch from her normal self to her role as Elizabeth was actually amazing. she REALLY did a good job impersonating / acting as Elizabeth. the speech patterns, the faces she made, etc. it was really interesting watching such talent.
but then when she was just Amanda, i was entirely unimpressed. she seemed to be exactly what i picture most actresses to be - a vapid, self important, pseudo-intellectual of average intelligence, who thinks she is an authority on things just because she is good at pretending.
the juxtaposition between the two was jarring.
This post was edited on 10/27/26 at 10:21 am
Posted on 10/27/26 at 10:32 am to VOR
quote:
Yup. There are no acting awards for a documentary…
The documentary category is famously narrow in definition
But the acting and best picture awards are pretty vague on qualifications for it. I could see this scoring noms on those easily.
Posted on 10/27/26 at 10:34 am to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:
thought it was interesting and entertaining. I wish he would have pressed her on the specifics of Theranos.
I think that’s all pretty well trotted ground and not really what he was after in this whole thing. There’s hours of deposition, podcasts, movies and TV shows about all that.
Posted on 10/27/26 at 10:41 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
I think that’s all pretty well trotted ground and not really what he was after in this whole thing. There’s hours of deposition, podcasts, movies and TV shows about all that.
Yeah but all those docs are told from an accusatory perspective. I wanted to hear her perspective on it. The point of the first half of the doc was to get her side of things and humanize her.
It probably would have been lies anyway but I wanted to see if she would throw others under the bus. Blame Sunny for the lab issues, blame the board for the walgreens deal. Blame marketing team for the "miscommunication" of what theoretically CAN be done and what could actually be done in the moment. blame VCs for them needing to grow quicker than was actually possible or risk losing the funding. Any explanation as to what went wrong and who was at fault. This idea that everything worked and she is going to jail for no reason is ludacris and they never really pressed her on it.
I mean hell, if they press on it a bit and ask specifics, and she maintains that everything was done correctly then we still gain some perspective in her psyche. But not asking the questions at all means we are left with nothing.
This post was edited on 10/27/26 at 10:45 am
Posted on 10/27/26 at 8:14 pm to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:
I left the theater thinking she was an autistic person who keeps getting taken advantage of by narcissistic men. but the further I get from seeing it and the more I think about it the more I see that she just pulled the wool over the audiences eyes the same way she did to investors. Her super power is that she is EXTREMELY believable.
I am in the exact same boat as you.
Posted on 10/27/26 at 11:01 pm to Sam Quint
quote:
I think Elizabeth Holmes knew what she was doing all along and she still does. I think Billy is 100% being used for his family money and connections. She saw in him exactly what he is - narcissist who will go to any lengths to be in the spotlight and be the hero - and she’s letting him play that part so that she will have access to his money. I think she is a 100% predator.
I waffled badly during the movie but eventually ended up here.
Billy is a douche of exceptionally high order though. The fact that he has power of attorney while she is in prison is the part that leaves some doubt.
However there can be no reasonable doubt that she understands the issues that she pretends not to understand (about the fraud Theranos perpetrated.). Who's on first is ultimately not a credible defense for misrepresenting your company's ability to perform diagnostic tests. In reading the Bad Blood book it was also eminently obvious she deliberately and vigorously perpetuated the fraud and concealed the technical malfeasance.
There were moments of high stress where I think Elizabeth shows the effects of deception in specific physical ways. Her face becomes locked in a not quite smile. Her nose and her cheeks also flush, sometimes intensely (resembling the cirrhotic red nose of an alcoholic). In a bizarre way her facial features resemble something like the intense whites and reds with a fixed artificial smile that you see portrayed in a Ringling Brothers Circus Clown, Howdy Doody, or even Ronald McDonald. I stared pretty intensely at those features during the long pauses in Nathan's conversations with her. There has to be some sort of literature about the mixture of excitement, joy, fear, and delight exemplified by clowns but portrayed by a Elizabeth involuntarily.
That facial expression was not natural but she sure paints an exceptional picture with it. Men and women alike fell victim to her charm in a way that doesn't make sense until you clock that she may be one of the most gifted liars and charmers to ever walk the Earth. The convincing nature with which she claims she will not financially benefit is exponentially better than the best George Costanza ever mustered.
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