re: Game of Thrones S8E5 "The Bells" is officially the worst reviewed GOT episode yet

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And as she got closer and closer to the throne, she became less cruel and more benevolent.

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Yeah so benevolent torching Rickon.

The last really benevolent thing she did was free the slaves in like season 4

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They made a point that not everyone she crucified was responsible.

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And she learned from that mistake. She followed Tyrion's advice and married a slaver in an attempt to unite the city's nobility and end the bloodshed.

Hence why her character arc through seasons five and six had her becoming less cruel and more benevolent. She learned how to rule effectively in Mereen over the course of 20 episodes. Over the course of just two episodes, she forgot all of that and decided to burn Westeros to the ground.

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Others would call it justice. In Old Testament times it was known as "an eye for an eye." Cruel? Yes. Psychotic? No. It also highlights my point that she only does cruel shite when someone has personally wronged her or wronged her people.

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It wasn't anything close to justice. It was random and arbitrary revenge killing. I don't know why you need to be told multiple times that she didn't even care which masters were crucified or that many of the ones she killed were flat out against the murder of the children she was seeking revenge for. She did not even bother to investigate who was at fault.

What’s the last truely benevolent thing she’s done?

She didn’t agree to fight with Jon till after she saw the army of the dead. That’s pragmatism.

When Jon just told her she wouldn’t agree until he bent the knee.

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she went completely against character and that's why people are complaining.

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maybe you've missed the last few seasons but it was always her character.

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And she learned from that mistake. She followed Tyrion's advice and married a slaver in an attempt to unite the city's nobility and end the bloodshed.

Hence why her character arc through seasons five and six had her becoming less cruel and more benevolent.

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And she was rewarded with having to allow the gladiatorial fights, an attempt on her life , and more bloodshed anyway followed immediately by capture by the Khals, whom she had to burn...

Perhaps she learned a lesson in all of that as well.

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You and buckeye have both been arguing against a point that was never even made.

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ok so. So all you in just one page...

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That's still a massive leap in 1.5 episodes.

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ow many times does it have to be explained that her ending up where she did is not the issue? It's the ridiculous pace that they tried to do it in that is the problem. She went from fighting for the living to killing everyone in a matter of 2 episodes.

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ETA: The descent should have began, at latest, when her first dragon was killed. It didn't though. It didn't start until episode 4 of a 6 episode final season.

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also you on the same page...

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I said it's been building up since season 1. That her going mad queen was one of a handful of likely outcomes.

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I am totally fine admitting I am wrong or if something is going over my head. Im rarely dead set on something on here and am fine eating crow. I dont think you can do the same.

I wouldnt mind hearing this change in thinking though, because im missing the point. Its like you did a 180 in the span of 4 posts. Theres a reason you're getting downvoted on everything you say.

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Oh come on, there was at least some lazy and rushed writing going on. They decided to make it 13 episodes so it was bound to happen.

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I’m just saying if you are basing a conclusion on the fact that fans didn’t like it, that may just due to fans not liking what they saw, rather than anything deeper than that.

I’m not going to argue against the notion that the last 2 seasons have felt rushed. In fact I was wondering how this was going to all be wrapped up years ago as that is the main problem I have with long running shows, and this one has so many characters and storylines it would be next to impossible (especially knowing how it starts but not how it ends). I really like this show and am along for the ride, knowing that it was based on an unfinished book series.

However, I’m not going to ignore that some people are just not happy with the way the plot turned, regardless of how it was written. A major character that many were rooting for is now a villain, that may piss people off but it doesn’t make it bad writing, that is all.

I guess I could just say that I’m not sure how this episode was any worse than the rest of the season. I just think that it is almost over and most people have realized they may not like the ending because there are now less variables at play than there were a month ago.

GRRM has spent 9 years writing a book that would be season 6 and people are upset that season 8 isn’t perfect

Really good write up from reddit user "The Mannis" breaking down Dany's path to madness

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• 106 - Viserys, after seeing how much the Dothraki love Daenerys, becomes jealous and tries to run away saying “Who can rule without wealth or fear of love.” (Daenerys well echo this sentiment in 804 and 805)

• 204 – Daenerys “When my dragons are grown… we will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground.”

• 206 – Daenerys “I will take what is mine with fire and blood.”

• 207 - Cersei Lannister “Half the Targaryens went mad, didn't they? What's the saying? "Every time a Targaryen is born, the gods flip a coin."

• 210 – Daenerys has a vision of a destroyed throne room. She reaches out to the throne but never touches it.

• 303 – Daenerys when speaking about her brother Rhaegar “…he was not the last dragon.”

• 404 - Daenerys executes 163 Meereenese noblemen. In 406 we learn some of these men were innocent. Daenerys shows absolutely no regret.

• 405 – Daenerys speaking with Jorah. “You counseled me against rashness once in Qarth. I didn’t listen. It all worked out well.”

• 407 – Jorah tells Daenerys “The masters treated men like beasts, as you said. Herding the masters into pens and slaughtering them by the thousands is also treating men like beasts.” Reminding her “I wouldn't be here to help you if Ned Stark had done to me what you want to do to the masters of Yunkai.”

• 407 – Daenerys “They can live in my new world or they can die in their old one.”

• 505 – Daenerys executes an innocent Meereenese nobleman for the sole purpose of intimidating the other nobles.

• 505 – Daenerys reopens the fighting pits allowing for innocent men to kill one another for entertainment.

• 508 – Daenerys “I’m not going to stop the wheel. I’m going to break the wheel.”

• 604 – Daenerys murders the leaders of the Dothraki for the sole purpose of consolidating power.

• 606 – Dario to Daenerys “You weren’t made to sit on a chair in a palace. You’re a conquer, Daenerys Stormborn.”

• 606 – Daenerys to the Dothraki “Will you kill my enemies in their iron suits and tear down their stone houses?”

• 609 – Speaking about the masters Daenerys swears to “Kill every one of their soldiers and return their cities to the dirt.” Tyrion responds “You once told me you knew what your father was. Did you know his plans for King’s Landing?” Daenerys “This is entirely different!” Tyrion “You’re talking about destroying cities. It’s not entirely different.”

• 702 – Yara Greyjoy, Olenna Tyrell, and Ellaria Sand all try to convince Daenerys to use her dragons on King’s Landing. Tyrion convinces her to do otherwise. (This is important as Tyrion’s plans fail, and his repeated failures show Daenerys there’s no other option)

• 702 - Olenna Tyrell “Commoners and nobles are all children really. They won’t obey you unless they fear you.” And later. “You’re a dragon. Be a dragon.”

• 704 – After news of her army’s defeat at Casterly Rock, Daenerys questions Tyrion’s plans and his loyalty.

• 704 – Daenerys “Enough with the clever plans. I have 3 large dragons. I’m going to fly them to the red keep.”

• 705 – Daenerys executes Randal and Dickon Tarly when imprisonment was a perfectly viable option.

• 705 – Tyrion “Daenerys is not her father.” Varys “And she never will be with the right counsel. You need to find a way to make her listen.”

• 705 – Tyrion devises a convoluted plan to capture a wight to convince Cersi to help fight the night King. Over the rest of seasons 7 and 8 this plan goes horribly wrong and results in the death of a dragon. The failure of this plan further degrades Daenerys’ trust of Tyrion.

• 801 – Lyanna Mormon publically confronts Jon Snow about giving up his crown and swearing allegiance to Daenerys. This is the beginning of Daenerys’ realization that she has no love in Westeros.

• 802 – Daenerys is angry that Tyrion’s advice about Cersei turned out to be wrong. Saying “Either you are a traitor or a fool.” And “Cersei still sits on the throne. If you can’t help me take it back I will find another Hand who can.”

• 803 – Jorah is killed in battle. He has proven to be one of the few advisors Daenerys had that tried to temper her impulses.

• 804 – Daenerys sees people praising Jon Snow and becomes jealous.

• 804 – Tormund “What kind of person climbs on a fricking dragon? A madman, or a king!” (I’d like to point out when Tormund says “madman” it cuts to a shot of Dany, and when he says “or a king!” it cuts to Jon)

• 804 – Speaking about Jorah to Jon, Daenerys “He loved me and I couldn’t love him back. Not the way he wanted. Not the way I love you.” (Her love for Jon is not returned in 805)

• 804 – Daenerys “I saw them gathered around you. I saw the way they looked at you. I know that look. So many people have looked at me that way but never here.”

• 804 – Varys “These are the people you came here to protect. Do not destroy the city you came to save…” Daenerys “I’m here to save the world fromy tyrants… and I will serve it, no matter the cost.”

• 804 - Daenerys “Speaking to Cersei will not prevent a slaughter. But perhaps its good the people see Daenerys Stormborn made every effort to avoid bloodshed and Cersei Lannister refused. They should know whom to blame when the sky falls down on them.” (We should note she is directly talking about “The People” here)

• 804 – Missandei’s final words before her execution. “Dracarys”.

• 805 – Varys “They say every time a Targaryen is born, the Gods toss a coin and the world holds its breath.”

• 805 – Daenerys speaking to Jon “Far more people in Westeros love you than love me. I don’t have love here. I only have fear.”

• 805 – After a half hearted kiss with Jon, Daenerys says “Alright then. Let it be fear.” (Echoing what Viserys said in 106)

• 805 – Tyrion “The people who live there, they’re not your enemies. They’re innocents.” Daenerys “Your sister knows how to use their enemies weaknesses against them. That’s what she thinks our mercy is. Our mercy is our strength. Our mercy toward future generations who will not be held hostage by a tyrant.” (She’s all but saying she’s not going to show mercy and will butcher everyone in the city)

• 805 – Daenerys to Tyrion. “Next time your fail me will be the last time you fail me.”

And that’s just what I can remember off the top of my head.

Here’s the point. Daenerys threatened multiple times to burn cities to the ground, she executed/murdered innocent people numerous times to consolidate power, she realized without love all she has left to rule with was fear, and she grew to distrust the only advisor trying to prevent her from burning down King’s landing.

She wasn’t “acting out of character” at any point in 805. She literally did the thing she’s threatened to do for multiple seasons.

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