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re: Scottie Pippen: MJ didn't win earlier in his career because he was a horrible team player
Posted on 5/26/23 at 9:00 pm to Colonel Flagg
Posted on 5/26/23 at 9:00 pm to Colonel Flagg
quote:
Rediculous to bring up Kobe. Hebgets completely overrated. He was a great player, but he was not what Laker/Kobe fans say he was. He just played for the Lakers.
0
Posted on 5/26/23 at 9:57 pm to hugo_boss
quote:
To me, either side of the MJ/LeBron debate saying that there isn't an argument for the other completely makes me tune out the person's sports opinions. There are arguments to be made for either. To put Kobe in the same conversation is laughable. It's completely fandom devoid of logic.
I agree LeBron, MJ and Kareem are the top in terms of best career.
But who is the best player is a much different question and that is where LeBron slips down the list for me. I still think he is an all time great, just in that 9-11 range. I clearly think he is one of the greatest to ever play the game, just not the greatest.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 10:10 pm to Bench McElroy
Scottie Pippen has turned into a little bitch lately.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 10:37 pm to ReauxlTide222
Helps to not get to as many elimination games.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:54 pm to Broski
MJ got mad when Doug made him point
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:55 pm to Bench McElroy
Oh my.
Posted on 5/26/23 at 11:56 pm to Bench McElroy
Scottie absolutely hates Michael's guts lmao. It probably drives him absolutely nuts that his ex wife is about to change her name from Pippen to Jordan.
Posted on 5/27/23 at 12:13 am to Bench McElroy
1986 Jordan...GOAT game before winning titles...
Jordan: 63 PTS (22/41 FG, 0/0 3PT), 6 AST, 5 REB.
Jordan took 40% of the Bulls shots in that game.
Bird took 25% of his team's shots with 36 points.
The Celtics went on to sweep the Bulls in three games.
The Bulls didn't add a shiteton of HOFers, Jordan just evolved...and Pippen arrived, who he trusted...at least back then.
Jordan: 63 PTS (22/41 FG, 0/0 3PT), 6 AST, 5 REB.
Jordan took 40% of the Bulls shots in that game.
Bird took 25% of his team's shots with 36 points.
The Celtics went on to sweep the Bulls in three games.
The Bulls didn't add a shiteton of HOFers, Jordan just evolved...and Pippen arrived, who he trusted...at least back then.
This post was edited on 5/27/23 at 12:17 am
Posted on 5/27/23 at 12:46 am to Bench McElroy
Scottie either made because MJ f’ed his wife or because MJ’s son is currently f’ing his wife
Posted on 5/27/23 at 2:07 am to GolfIsGood
quote:
I still think he is an all time great, just in that 9-11 range. I clearly think he is one of the greatest to ever play the game, just not the greatest
I would be interested in seeing your list and criteria.
Posted on 5/27/23 at 4:32 am to Bench McElroy
4 of his 5 highest assist years were in his 1st 6 seasons
Posted on 5/27/23 at 5:03 am to Bench McElroy
quote:
All of a sudden, we become a team and we start winning, everybody forgot who he was.”
This is how we know Bronny isn’t tGOAT. Because his fanbois have to make shite up to bolster his case. Just like the racist graffiti on Bronny’s gate . . . all lies.
Posted on 5/27/23 at 5:58 am to Bench McElroy
Why did you add “team” in the title when that’s not what Pippen said?
Posted on 5/27/23 at 6:35 am to GolfIsGood
quote:
But who is the best player is a much different question and that is where LeBron slips down the list for me.
You talking peak or what? B/c then it's still MJ, Lebron, and Kareem.
Lebron's peak was when he was on the Heat and people forget how unbelievable he was. He had some outlier-good years with CLE, too.
Seasons with PER > 26 (had to lower it down this much so Kobe wouldn't be 0)
MJ: 10
Kareem: 7
LBJ: 12
Kobe: 3
You can look at WS/48, where Kobe is a distant 4th. Or TS%, where Kobe is 4th again. Or Box-Score +/-.
Kobe is outside the top 10, closer to 15th than Lebron.
MJ, Lebron, and Kareerm are the rarefied air of NBA history.
Then you get the apex predators of their eras. Bird, Magic, Shaq, Duncan, Russell, Wilt, Durant, Giannis, Steph, Hakeem, etc. (Jokic will be here shortly)
Then you get Kobe's tier, with guys like Barkley, Malone, Stockton, KG, Isaiah, West, Dirk, Hakeem, Pippen, The 70s guys, etc.
Posted on 5/27/23 at 7:40 am to Bench McElroy
quote:
I seen Michael Jordan play before I came to play with the Bulls,” Pippen continued. “You guys seen him play, he was a horrible player. He was horrible to play with, he was all one-on-one, he’s shooting bad shots. All of a sudden, we become a team and we start winning
Jordan has this mythical status in basketball now. He was a great player, but I’ve always said he came along at a time when individualism, self promotion and advertising made players “seem” like the best thing ever. Same for guys like Dione Sanders and guys like that.
I agree that Jordan was always a ‘me’ player and wasn’t a real team player.
quote:
we become a team and we start winning, everybody forgot who he was.”
Now that’s dumb. Jordan needed guys like Scottie, Kerr, Armstrong, Grant, Rodman, etc. to win championships…but he was always the best player on the team and one of the best players of all time.
Posted on 5/27/23 at 9:05 am to Oilfieldbiology
quote:Lebron has played in 282 playoff games to Jordan’s 179. Jordan wasn’t good enough at basketball to come close to Lebron’s elimination record.
So Lebron has been eliminated in the playoffs 12 times and has been on the brink of elimination 26 times to Kobe’s 10/19 and Jordan’s 7/13
And you think that makes Lebron better because his team has been on the brink of elimination twice as often as MJ’s?
And either way, I was responding to a guy saying Jordan and Kobe were better elimination game performers. Did I not prove him wrong?
Posted on 5/27/23 at 9:13 am to MetrySaint24
quote:No it doesn’t.
Helps to not get to as many elimination games.
That doesn’t affect their record in those games. What DOES affect it, however, is Lebron still playing this deep into a career. He’ll end up with nearly twice as many playoff games as Jordan.
ETA:
quote:How the frick does this even make sense to you?
Helps to not get to as many elimination games.
This post was edited on 5/27/23 at 9:14 am
Posted on 5/27/23 at 9:30 am to Bench McElroy
He's not wrong. I watched mj from when he was a rookie. But he was a ball hog because he didn't have any support. Once he got better players with him, the dynasty began. If he didn't sit out two years, would have won eight straight championships.
Posted on 5/27/23 at 1:32 pm to BHTiger
That and he signed a terrible contract
Posted on 5/27/23 at 1:50 pm to ReauxlTide222
quote:
Lebron has played in 282 playoff games to Jordan’s 179. Jordan wasn’t good enough at basketball to come close to Lebron’s elimination record. And either way, I was responding to a guy saying Jordan and Kobe were better elimination game performers. Did I not prove him wrong?
Every series is now 7 games. That adds to the number of playoff games. Still, Jordan was only eliminated 7 times, while Lebron has 12 times.
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