re: For people who believe Brady made Belichick, who do you think is the GOAT NFL head coach?

Tom Flores

Just kidding, he doesn't have the longevity as head coach or the overall record to be considered GOAT but he was pretty damn good in the early-mid 80’s with the Raiders

As probably one of the few Patriots fans here I'd defend BB still as the best of all time for a few reasons. However, if I had to pick a GOAT I'd go with Jimmy Johnson or Bill Walsh. Johnson won big in college and the pros and helped create 90's Cowboys from the ground up. Walsh brought the West Coast system into the NFL and set up the 49ers for a decade and a half of great teams.

I'd still say BB is the GOAT though. Yes, he had Brady for the duration of that run and it has gone bad this year but what he was in charge of for two decades is unprecedented and it was really two dynasties in one.

1. He kept Brady around when he was 3/4 string QB back in 2000. They had Bledsoe who was the highest paid player in the sport and then BB rode with Brady in 2001 even when Bledsoe was ready to comeback. People forget now, but it was still a debate after that season whether to keep Brady or Bledsoe.

2. The first dynasty was more defense oriented, especially that 2001 team. Brady was great, but that was when the NFL was more ground and pound and play defense.

3. He changed the NFL in 2007 when they were throwing it all over the field, and that was a time when few teams did it with success.

4. He adapted with the game, the second part of the dynasty was more offense oriented and he put weapons around Brady to maximize that. Including going to the 2 TE sets with Gronk and Hernandez back in 2010.

5. For all the talk about him without Brady. He had Cleveland on the brink in the 90's until it all fell apart when the move was announced. He went 11-5 with Matt Cassell in 2008, almost made the playoffs with a washed up Cam Newton in 2020 (they were in cap he** too), made the playoffs with a rookie Mac Jones the next year. Yeah it has fallen apart this year, but most great coaches fall off at the end.

6. BB had to deal with free agency and a salary cap, Knoll, Walsh, Gibbs, Landry, Shula, Lombardi never had to or did very briefly. BB had to constantly reload the roster with those restrictions and still won at high rate.

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I’m sorry what

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See the Dan Marino era and the Killer Bees. I didn't say he didn't win with Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, but never winning again with all that talent was ridiculous.

Jimmy Johnson.

Belicheck made the mistake of coaching too long, otherwise this isn't even an argument. I still think its him.

And him coaching too long likely means he doesn't care too much about his legacy. He just likes doing it.

Those defenses have still been legit. They are still trying to figure out QB, and figuring out how to get offensive talent when you don't have the a top 2 QB and great Super Bowl odds to lure them in on cheap deals.

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I wouldn't go that far to say he made Belichick but it can't be ignored what his record is without him.

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Belichick was also 14-6 without Brady when Brady missed games during their tenure together…… People need to realize, their is a reason Brady bolted from NE, he saw the writing on the wall in terms of roster management. He saw the TEAM wasn’t good anymore so he left. And they replaced him with quite possibly the worst qb in the nfl. So yeh, they didn’t win much as a team anymore

But when Brady went down during the golden years, they still went 14-6. That’s pretty fricking good

Belichick won all of those titles with probably the third best QB in the league. Quite an accomplishment.

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Knight of Old

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Yep. Nailed it.

Chuck Noll
4 Super Bowl wins in six years

If the NFL would quit being so racist it would obviously be Eric Bienemy.