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Started By
Message
That Meat and Cheese is Killing You, baws
Posted on 9/5/17 at 2:10 pm
Posted on 9/5/17 at 2:10 pm
I know this forum is essentially just a sub-forum of bobybuilding.com and consists mostly of "making all kindz of gainz" bros and what not. Thus, I know such an opinion won't be popular around here, but I must say that if you want to live the healthiest life, you won't eat meat or cheese or drink milk.
For one thing, the heavier a diet is in protein, the higher your IGF-1 levels (an insulin signaling pathway). Yes, IGF-1 can be good for building muscle, but it also has been linked to All Cause Mortality (ACM) in a number of studies like this one. It has been linked to numerous cancers as well (a pretty significant risk of cancer, actually).
Indeed IGF-1 also has been linked to premature aging. This study and this study are good examples. It has been a primary focus of anti-aging researchers who have shown in roundworms, fruit flies and lab rats that the lower the IGF-1, the longer the animal lives (sometimes a significant increase in lifespan) and the fewer diseases they have including diabetes and cancer.
A lower level of IGF-1 is one of the primary benefits of intermittent fasting, which is believed to increase the lifespan of animals and humans. Researchers have long known that "calorie restriction" increased the lifespan of various species, but in the old days they didn't know exactly why it worked. Now we know that it's (mostly) IGF-1 -- the less you eat, the less IGF-1 will be circulating in your blood.
Outside of IGF-1, we all know about cholesterol, triglycerides and LDL-C increases because of meat consumption. While (dietary) cholesterol isn't the villain it used to be, there is still no doubt that trans fat and saturated fat is terrible for you. Study after study has shown this over and over again. Give me 100 vegans and 100 paleo people and let's test who has the highest triglyceride and LDL levels. Go to the paleo or keto subredit forums and look at all the people bitching about high cholesterol and LDL blood levels.
Now some people have the attitude "live fast, die young" which I can respect. Some people just want to get jacked in their 20's and are fine if they're dead by 50. It's the same with the fatass who says "I may die young, but at least I got to enjoy food." If that's your attitude, cool. You can stop reading.
But for those who want to maximize HEALTH and live the longest life their genes will allow, then a 100% plant diet is the only way, bros. It just is. Stop trying to claim your keto diet is healthy when hundreds of studies say exactly the opposite. Yes, you can lose fat, but you can lose fat with any calorie restricted diet. Being thin or even jacked doesn't mean you're healthy. Lots of bodybuilders have died in their 40's and 50's. Even Arnold himself has had bypass surgery. Yes taking steroids increases these risks (as well as cancer) significantly, but all that meat and protein doesn't help matters either. By the way, high levels of protein increases insulin sensitivity (no carbs aren't the only food that does this).
P.S. I am not a vegan fanatic who wants to "save the environment." I do it strictly for health reasons. I follow the science and the science says if you want to lower your risk of heart disease, cancer, diabetes and remain a normal body weight, you will eat plants and cut-out all meat.
For one thing, the heavier a diet is in protein, the higher your IGF-1 levels (an insulin signaling pathway). Yes, IGF-1 can be good for building muscle, but it also has been linked to All Cause Mortality (ACM) in a number of studies like this one. It has been linked to numerous cancers as well (a pretty significant risk of cancer, actually).
Indeed IGF-1 also has been linked to premature aging. This study and this study are good examples. It has been a primary focus of anti-aging researchers who have shown in roundworms, fruit flies and lab rats that the lower the IGF-1, the longer the animal lives (sometimes a significant increase in lifespan) and the fewer diseases they have including diabetes and cancer.
A lower level of IGF-1 is one of the primary benefits of intermittent fasting, which is believed to increase the lifespan of animals and humans. Researchers have long known that "calorie restriction" increased the lifespan of various species, but in the old days they didn't know exactly why it worked. Now we know that it's (mostly) IGF-1 -- the less you eat, the less IGF-1 will be circulating in your blood.
Outside of IGF-1, we all know about cholesterol, triglycerides and LDL-C increases because of meat consumption. While (dietary) cholesterol isn't the villain it used to be, there is still no doubt that trans fat and saturated fat is terrible for you. Study after study has shown this over and over again. Give me 100 vegans and 100 paleo people and let's test who has the highest triglyceride and LDL levels. Go to the paleo or keto subredit forums and look at all the people bitching about high cholesterol and LDL blood levels.
Now some people have the attitude "live fast, die young" which I can respect. Some people just want to get jacked in their 20's and are fine if they're dead by 50. It's the same with the fatass who says "I may die young, but at least I got to enjoy food." If that's your attitude, cool. You can stop reading.
But for those who want to maximize HEALTH and live the longest life their genes will allow, then a 100% plant diet is the only way, bros. It just is. Stop trying to claim your keto diet is healthy when hundreds of studies say exactly the opposite. Yes, you can lose fat, but you can lose fat with any calorie restricted diet. Being thin or even jacked doesn't mean you're healthy. Lots of bodybuilders have died in their 40's and 50's. Even Arnold himself has had bypass surgery. Yes taking steroids increases these risks (as well as cancer) significantly, but all that meat and protein doesn't help matters either. By the way, high levels of protein increases insulin sensitivity (no carbs aren't the only food that does this).
P.S. I am not a vegan fanatic who wants to "save the environment." I do it strictly for health reasons. I follow the science and the science says if you want to lower your risk of heart disease, cancer, diabetes and remain a normal body weight, you will eat plants and cut-out all meat.
Posted on 9/5/17 at 2:22 pm to AUstar
Yeah..... I don't agree but I'll let 777 make a long post about it.
Posted on 9/5/17 at 2:40 pm to AUstar
Looking forward to getting back on the Keto pain train tomorrow.
Posted on 9/5/17 at 2:50 pm to AUstar
My gaydar just went the frick off, brah.
Posted on 9/5/17 at 2:59 pm to AUstar
quote:
P.S. I am not a vegan fanatic who wants to "save the environment." I do it strictly for health reasons. I follow the science and the science says if you want to lower your risk of heart disease, cancer, diabetes and remain a normal body weight, you will eat plants and cut-out all meat.
The science says we don't really know yet. Most of the time if you are either side of an extreme argument you are wrong. I could find countless studies that say exactly the opposite of what you are arguing while you could find numerous that back you up. People like you are the problem. Instead of telling everyone that your way is the right way why don't you just admit that we don't really know and try to find more answers instead of saying you know this is the answer.
Posted on 9/5/17 at 3:20 pm to SabiDojo
quote:
My gaydar just went the frick off, brah.
no homo
Posted on 9/5/17 at 3:42 pm to AUstar
From your first link
quote:
Acknowledgments
GHRKO (C57BL/6 background) mice were kindly provided by J.J. Kopchick (Ohio University). This work was funded by NIH/NIA grants (AG20642, AG025135, and AG034906) to V.D.L., NIH/NIA grants (P30AG017265 and T32AG0037) to E.M.C., and a USC Norris Cancer Center pilot grant to V.D.L. The funding sources had no involvement in study design; in the collection, analysis and interpretation of data; in the writing of the report; and in the decision to submit the article for publication. V.D.L. has equity interest in L-Nutra, a company that develops medical food. The other authors declare that they have no conflicts of interest.
Posted on 9/5/17 at 3:44 pm to AUstar
quote:
But for those who want to maximize HEALTH and live the longest life their genes will allow, then a 100% plant diet is the only way, bros.
I'm just gonna keep eating meat and count on modern medicine to come through in a big way in the next 50 years.
Posted on 9/5/17 at 3:47 pm to AUstar
I have superior genetics, so I'm going to continue to eat anything I want. Thanks.
Posted on 9/5/17 at 3:47 pm to AUstar
Holy wall of bullshite Batman
Posted on 9/5/17 at 4:22 pm to AUstar
quote:
By the way, high levels of protein increases insulin sensitivity (no carbs aren't the only food that does this)
Uhhhh I think you mean decrease insulin sensitivity. Brb going vegan so I can squeeze out a few more years in the nursing home. Looking forward to sitting in my wheelchair at 93, in the middle of bingo, shitting myself, reflecting how eating all those tofu burgers were totally worth it.
Posted on 9/5/17 at 5:27 pm to AUstar
quote:
for those who want to maximize HEALTH and live the longest life their genes will allow, then a 100% plant diet is the only way, bros. It just is.
Balance, son. Eat your plants, eat meat, avoid processed stuff unless it's a party or some occasion. But don't be too spartan about diet or workouts. You gotta enjoy life or a long one won't matter.
Posted on 9/5/17 at 5:38 pm to AUstar
Have fun dying when you're 90 eating plants all day. I'll die at 80 eating things that actually taste good. Woe is me.
Posted on 9/5/17 at 8:29 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
All I'm going to say is other than igf causing the rapid growth of pre existing cancer cells when igf levels get into Supra ranges, his whole post is complete and utter bullshite and supported by studies that are completely flawed.
I will say he is also right about meat and cheese and dairy is killing us buts it's because of the bullshite way it's raised. Naturally grown animals that are fed their natural diet are what we should be eating and is what we are meant to eat.
Btw anybody that says that an all plant diet is the way to health is either too stupid to be able to understand studies, naive, brainwashed or has an agenda. Sorry if this offends you but it's the truth, in your case you are completely naive and lack the critical thinking skills to understand the studies you quote and to understand coralation doesn't equal causesation.
I will say he is also right about meat and cheese and dairy is killing us buts it's because of the bullshite way it's raised. Naturally grown animals that are fed their natural diet are what we should be eating and is what we are meant to eat.
Btw anybody that says that an all plant diet is the way to health is either too stupid to be able to understand studies, naive, brainwashed or has an agenda. Sorry if this offends you but it's the truth, in your case you are completely naive and lack the critical thinking skills to understand the studies you quote and to understand coralation doesn't equal causesation.
Posted on 9/5/17 at 8:53 pm to AUstar
Btw all the things oh said in your post are 100%. From what causes heart disease, to what causes cancer, to what causes diabetes, to igf levels being linked to early again(they are also linked to elevated hgh levels which are linked to anti aging), to steroids causing the risk of cancer to go up.
You are so uneducated it's not even funny. You should really go and read it all starts with food and educate yourself. Also educate yourself on how to interrupt studies and think critically.
You are so uneducated it's not even funny. You should really go and read it all starts with food and educate yourself. Also educate yourself on how to interrupt studies and think critically.
Posted on 9/5/17 at 9:47 pm to AUstar
The reason why meat gets such a bad reputation is because people are eating highly processed meats and unhealthy fats. Switch to grass fed organic beef and "clean" meats. You eliminate most of the bad toxins by caring where your meat comes from/what the meat was fed before it became food.
Posted on 9/6/17 at 12:39 am to AUstar
How do I know your are completely full of shite?
This statement:"Even Arnold himself has had bypass surgery."
No he did most certain-fricking-Ly not have "bypass" surgery.
He had an open heart surgery to repair a congenitally stenotic aortic valve (that means he was born with it dumbass)- thus was done to prevent congestive heart failure.
What an idiot
This statement:"Even Arnold himself has had bypass surgery."
No he did most certain-fricking-Ly not have "bypass" surgery.
He had an open heart surgery to repair a congenitally stenotic aortic valve (that means he was born with it dumbass)- thus was done to prevent congestive heart failure.
What an idiot
Posted on 9/6/17 at 3:14 am to AUstar
quote:
Some people just want to get jacked in their 20's and are fine if they're dead by 50.
Hyperbole much?
Posted on 9/6/17 at 8:16 am to AUstar
quote:
I know this forum is essentially just a sub-forum of bobybuilding.com and consists mostly of "making all kindz of gainz" bros and what not.
Not all of us are on the gainz-train bro.
quote:
This study and this study are good examples
You know what these studies show me - that mice shouldn't be doing that. Mouse studies - IGF is waaaay overblown these days.
quote:
Outside of IGF-1, we all know about cholesterol, triglycerides and LDL-C increases because of meat consumption. While (dietary) cholesterol isn't the villain it used to be, there is still no doubt that trans fat and saturated fat is terrible for you. Study after study has shown this over and over again. Give me 100 vegans and 100 paleo people and let's test who has the highest triglyceride and LDL levels. Go to the paleo or keto subredit forums and look at all the people bitching about high cholesterol and LDL blood levels.
Man, didn't know meat contained so much trans fat . Saturated fat? you kidding me? you know where that came from? Epidemiological studies that got their info from food questionnaires. That's right, food questionnaires. They confounded saturated fats with other crap, take "hamburger" ok.....its got saturated fat! But, they didn't connect that it also has a bun, ketchup, mustard, and other crap. the ground beef isn't the harmful agent here.
quote:
then a 100% plant diet is the only way, bros.
Dr. Michael Greger would be proud. How in the heck do you plan on breaking down all that cellulose to get ALL of the nutrients those plants have?
quote:
Stop trying to claim your keto diet is healthy when hundreds of studies say exactly the opposite
Now I figured it out, you're trolling. r/keto has 400,000+ subscribers because it jacks peoples lipid panels to insane values while they lose weight /s. You have no idea about anything related to cholesterol, trigs, HDL, LDL-C, LDL-p or what they mean.
quote:
I am not a vegan fanatic who wants to "save the environment."
Yes you are, because that is exactly what I am calling you.
quote:
I follow the science and the science says if you want to lower your risk of heart disease, cancer, diabetes and remain a normal body weight, you will "eat meat, not too little, mostly fat".
FIFY
This post was edited on 9/7/17 at 8:21 am
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