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Posted on 6/12/19 at 1:22 pm to ThePoo
quote:
We have a very shallow surface level understanding of consciousness.Scientists know about as much about the universe as they do consciousness. We have no idea where consciousness and awareness comes from, what circumstances are necessary for it to exist, where it can exist...pretty much every substantial question about consciousness has no definitive answer
Quite possibly the best answer I've seen on td to a question... well said.
To the op, physics tells us that matter is neither created or destroyed, only changed in form. Put another way, the dalai lama succinctly summed this up in his book the universe in an atom, saying everything exists or nothing exists. Meaning, there is only one thing, in which you exist now, you have always existed and you will always. Only the form of it will change periodically.
Posted on 6/12/19 at 1:23 pm to Darth_Vader
Research what the ancient Egyptians thought on this topic. They had a large part of their economy dealing with death and afterlife. The Incans had declared war on Time in order to stave off death.
Posted on 6/12/19 at 1:24 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
How do you know? You’ve still not answered this.
Because all of the divine fairy tales you believe are just that. Fairy Tales. You might as well believe you go to Never Never Land or Tatooine when you die. They're the same level of fiction.
Posted on 6/12/19 at 1:26 pm to beerJeep
quote:there is a difference betweein acceptance of truth and being open to the possibility that it is true
What facts do you base your acceptance of their word as truth?
you are not open to the idea, sounds like he is saying he does not know but is open to the possibility, very in line with the scientific community
quote:we don't have enough information to determine what is logincal and what is not when it comes to this
It’s the most logical answer.
It is not logical that everything in the universe that has been or ever has been exploded from a single point of singularity the size of a pin point, but that is what most believe
There are many things in the universe that would blow your mind over 100x's over. It has very little to do with logic and everything to do with our limited and basic understanding of things as humans. just a couple hundred years ago the most logical answer was that the world was flat
it is important to keep an open mind
This post was edited on 6/12/19 at 1:32 pm
Posted on 6/12/19 at 1:26 pm to ThePoo
quote:
There are obviously switches that can turn consciousness on and off
My right cross, but it only turns it off
Posted on 6/12/19 at 1:28 pm to MightyYat
quote:Why does the afterlife require any tie to religion whatsoever. Why can't there be a completely scientific explanation as to the extension of consciousness beyond the lifespan of the body
Because all of the divine fairy tales you believe are just that.
Medicine and science wouldn’t be trying to figure this out if they already knew the answer
This post was edited on 6/12/19 at 8:38 pm
Posted on 6/12/19 at 1:30 pm to ThePoo
quote:
you are not open to the ide, sounds like he is saying he does not know but is open to the possibility, very in line with the scientific community
Oh, no. I’m definitely open to it. I just see there being nothing after death as the far more likely scenario.
quote:
There are many things in the universe that would blowe your mind over 100x's over. It has very litte to do with logic and everything to do with our limited and basic understanding of things as humans
We’ll figure it out eventually I suppose. I’d say we can meet and chat about it then, but I done believe that is going to happen. If so, I’ll buy the first round.
Posted on 6/12/19 at 1:31 pm to beerJeep
quote:
What facts do you base your acceptance of their word as truth?
We’re both speculating.
I never said I accepted them as truth. I only asked you how you know they’re lying.
quote:
It’s the most logical answer. We live. We die. The world moves on.
Based on what logic?
The point of all my questions is to draw attention to the absurdity of people claiming to know for a fact that nothing happens after death. Nobody knows. We can’t know until we die and, from my experience, stay dead. Maybe nothing happens. But maybe something does. Whatever we think happens after we die is based on nothing but pure faith. Christians have faith in what they think happens. So do Muslims, Jews, and all other religions. But just as all these religions have faith in what happens after death, the same is true for atheists and agnostics as well. So yes, even people who do not believe on God still have to put faith into something.
So the only true answer for anyone trying to answer OP’s question is to say they don’t know what happens after death. But they have faith that “x” will happen.
This post was edited on 6/12/19 at 1:35 pm
Posted on 6/12/19 at 1:32 pm to Slippy
quote:
I'm a Catholic
so shouldn't you understand the concept of faith ?
if you knew (meaning all of us), there would be no faith required for your salvation. no belief without seeing.
This post was edited on 6/12/19 at 1:35 pm
Posted on 6/12/19 at 1:32 pm to Slippy
Has there ever been a scintilla of evidence of what happens after you die?
yes, the worms eat good
the rest is speculation based on your faith or lack there of
yes, the worms eat good
the rest is speculation based on your faith or lack there of
Posted on 6/12/19 at 1:37 pm to MightyYat
quote:
Because all of the divine fairy tales you believe are just that. Fairy Tales. You might as well believe you go to Never Never Land or Tatooine when you die. They're the same level of fiction.
Just as some put their faith into what you dismiss as “fairy tails” being true. You are putting your faith in them not being true. Bottom line though is you have no more proof of your thinking being correct than they do. Maybe one day you’ll be able to realize this.
Maybe.
This post was edited on 6/12/19 at 1:37 pm
Posted on 6/12/19 at 1:38 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
I never said I accepted them as truth. I only asked you how you know they’re lying.
Well, you saw nothing, they saw something. It’s an either or, not a both can be right type of situation. Unless you believe that each persons afterlife is tired to their own belief system.
quote:
Based on what logic?
What logic is an afterlife based on? Human desire for a greater understanding to the ultimate unknown. It’s devoid of logic.
Posted on 6/12/19 at 1:39 pm to Slippy
quote:
Has there ever been a scintilla of evidence of what happens after you die?
you can't just start a thread using the word "scintilla" in it on the OT.
Posted on 6/12/19 at 1:40 pm to Slippy
I work with a guy who was legally dead for 20 minutes. He said nothing happened.
Posted on 6/12/19 at 1:41 pm to Slippy
quote:
Has there ever been a scintilla of evidence of what happens after you die?
How could such evidence possibly be acquired?
Posted on 6/12/19 at 1:42 pm to beerJeep
quote:No reason why both cant exist
Well, you saw nothing, they saw something. It’s an either or, not a both can be right type of situation.
quote:could be tied to a number of circumstances that effect whether consciousness is on or off, whether it is on permanently or temporarily. We just dont know. We do know that consciousness can be turned of temporarily but we are not sure if it can be done permanently
Unless you believe that each persons afterlife is tired to their own belief system.
quote:It is not devoid of logic, it is devoid of understanding.
What logic is an afterlife based on? Human desire for a greater understanding to the ultimate unknown. It’s devoid of logic.
This post was edited on 6/12/19 at 1:47 pm
Posted on 6/12/19 at 1:48 pm to Slippy
Your organic container dies in the material realm (in the flesh...)
Conciousness is favored to be non-local. It lives on (as it is not "made by your brain")
Your brain is an:
antenna of sorts
reducing valve (prison) that allows you to exist in this realm (in a agreed upon mass hallucination...)
You get a sense of this when the brain goes "offline" in sleep, psychadelic and near death experiences. The valve opens up to allow a more complete experience...
Arguments below:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anamnesis_(philosophy)
—-
Plato meet quantum mechanics...
https://www.scienceandnonduality.com/article/a-new-theory-of-consciousness-the-mind-exists-as-a-field-connected-to-the-brain
—
Synthesis:
https://uvamagazine.org/articles/the_science_of_reincarnation
Conciousness is favored to be non-local. It lives on (as it is not "made by your brain")
Your brain is an:
antenna of sorts
reducing valve (prison) that allows you to exist in this realm (in a agreed upon mass hallucination...)
You get a sense of this when the brain goes "offline" in sleep, psychadelic and near death experiences. The valve opens up to allow a more complete experience...
Arguments below:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anamnesis_(philosophy)
quote:
In philosophy, anamnesis (/?ænæm'ni?s?s/; Ancient Greek: ???µ??s??) is a concept in Plato's epistemological and psychological theory that he develops in his dialogues Meno and Phaedo, and alludes to in his Phaedrus. It is the idea that humans possess innate knowledge (perhaps acquired before birth) and that learning consists of rediscovering that knowledge within us.
quote:
Socrates' response is to develop his theory of anamnesis. He suggests that the soul is immortal, and repeatedly incarnated; knowledge is in the soul from eternity (86b), but each time the soul is incarnated its knowledge is forgotten in the trauma of birth. What one perceives to be learning, then, is the recovery of what one has forgotten. (Once it has been brought back it is true belief, to be turned into genuine knowledge by understanding.) And thus Socrates (and Plato) sees himself, not as a teacher, but as a midwife, aiding with the birth of knowledge that was already there in the student. The theory is illustrated by Socrates asking a slave boy questions about geometry. At first the boy gives the wrong answer; when this is pointed out to him, he is puzzled, but by asking questions Socrates is able to help him to reach the correct answer. This is intended to show that, as the boy wasn't told the answer, he could only have reached the truth by recollecting what he had already known but forgotten.
—-
Plato meet quantum mechanics...
https://www.scienceandnonduality.com/article/a-new-theory-of-consciousness-the-mind-exists-as-a-field-connected-to-the-brain
quote:
A New Theory of Consciousness: The Mind Exists as a Field Connected to the Brain By Tara MacIsaac •
Dec 19, 2018
quote:
An article published in the September 2017 edition of NeuroQuantology reviews and expands upon the current theories of consciousness that arise from this meeting of neuroscience and quantum physics. Dr. Dirk K.F. Meijer, a professor at the University of Groningen in the Netherlands, hypothesizes that consciousness resides in a field surrounding the brain. This field is in another dimension. It shares information with the brain through quantum entanglement, among other methods. And it has certain similarities with a black hole. This field may be able to pick up information from the Earth’s magnetic field, dark energy, and other sources. It then “transmits wave information into the brain tissue, that … is instrumental in high-speed conscious and subconscious information processing,” Dirk wrote. In other words, the “mind” is a field that exists around the brain; it picks up information from outside the brain and communicates it to the brain in an extremely fast process. He described this field alternately as “a holographic structured field,” a “receptive mental workspace,” a “meta-cognitive domain,” and the “global memory space of the individual.”
quote:
The mind may reside in another spatial dimension.
—
Synthesis:
https://uvamagazine.org/articles/the_science_of_reincarnation
quote:
The Science of Reincarnation UVA psychiatrist Jim Tucker investigates children’s claims of past lives
by SEAN LYONS
This post was edited on 6/12/19 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 6/12/19 at 1:48 pm to beerJeep
quote:
Well, you saw nothing, they saw something. It’s an either or, not a both can be right type of situation. Unless you believe that each persons afterlife is tired to their own belief system.
I didn’t say I didn’t see anything. I said I don’t remember anything. I coded around 9 PM at night. I lost consciousness about 30 minutes before that. But the last thing I remember from that day was a little before 6:00 PM. My brain went hours without getting sufficient blood and at lest a few minutes of getting no blood. It’s understandable that I would have a gap in my memory.
As for these other people who’ve had similar experiences as I, I have no way to prove if they’re being honest or not. So instead of declaring them to be either honest or liars all I can do is say I don’t know.
quote:
What logic is an afterlife based on? Human desire for a greater understanding to the ultimate unknown. It’s devoid of logic.
That’s your opinion. But that does not prove anything more than a Baptist preacher saying what they believe about afterlife is proof that he’s correct. Again, just as he puts his faith in what he thinks about what happens after death, you likewise are placing your faith in what you think happens. But the truth of the matter is you have no more proof that you’re correct than he does.
Posted on 6/12/19 at 1:50 pm to ThePoo
quote:
No reason why both cant exist
Sure there is. There is either an afterlife, or there isn’t. Something can’t both exist and not exist simultaneously.
quote:
could be tied to a number of circumstances that effect whether consciousness is on or off, whether it is on permanently or temporarily. We just dont know. We do know that consciousness can be turned of temporarily but we are not sure if it can be done permanently
Or maybe we’re just a simulation. Data. 1s and 0s. I like this theory far more than an afterlife. What is god, but a preteen playing the sims on the macware5000.
quote:
It is not devoid of logic, it ids devoid of understanding.
The living will never know the secrets of the dead.
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