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re: How difficult is it to get your kid into a military service academy
Posted on 5/25/18 at 1:24 pm to TDcline
Posted on 5/25/18 at 1:24 pm to TDcline
Military academy appointments are EXTREMELY competitive. If you are a MOH recipient they are automatic, otherwise there are typically 2,000+ applicants for each spot at West Point, Anapolis, and The Academy (Air Force). Used to be the Coast Guard Academy took all applicants, not sure if that is the case anymore or not.
Getting the recommendation letters is actually one of the easiest parts, the grades (4.0 GPA), service hours, resume builders, etc all are looked at.
If that is a goal have them start building toward it in the 8th grade.
Getting the recommendation letters is actually one of the easiest parts, the grades (4.0 GPA), service hours, resume builders, etc all are looked at.
If that is a goal have them start building toward it in the 8th grade.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 1:24 pm to TennesseeFan25
Also if you are the son of a medal of honor winner, the president writes your recommendation and you get right in.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 1:26 pm to TDcline
Pretty sure you have to blow a politician
Posted on 5/25/18 at 1:51 pm to TDcline
I went through it all back in high school for the Air Force Academy.
Basically, iirc, I had to compile a list of all of my extra-curricular activities, have references, the normal shite, and then I had to get a recommendation From my congressman.
My family and I attended a dinner with the other applicants and then the next morning we all underwent a panel interview with individuals of note from my community. I was nervous as shite and I didn’t even want to go, my Mom was making me do it all.
I wasn’t in ROTC, had no experience with any of that stuff, showed up to my interview in a button down, jacket and khakis and every other kid was in their ROTC shite and I felt like an idiot.
Didn’t matter, I got the letter of recommendation. I didn’t get ‘accepted’ though. My ACT was too low (24) and I was going to have to retake it and I said frick that.
Not gonna lie, wish I would have gone. That is the elite of the elite and I didn’t know what the hell I was passing on.
ETA: i had okay grades in high school. 3.4 GPA, wasn’t top 10%. However, I did take part in a ton of extra-curriculars though and also had a lot of volunteering. Not by choice, my mom made me do it all
Basically, iirc, I had to compile a list of all of my extra-curricular activities, have references, the normal shite, and then I had to get a recommendation From my congressman.
My family and I attended a dinner with the other applicants and then the next morning we all underwent a panel interview with individuals of note from my community. I was nervous as shite and I didn’t even want to go, my Mom was making me do it all.
I wasn’t in ROTC, had no experience with any of that stuff, showed up to my interview in a button down, jacket and khakis and every other kid was in their ROTC shite and I felt like an idiot.
Didn’t matter, I got the letter of recommendation. I didn’t get ‘accepted’ though. My ACT was too low (24) and I was going to have to retake it and I said frick that.
Not gonna lie, wish I would have gone. That is the elite of the elite and I didn’t know what the hell I was passing on.
ETA: i had okay grades in high school. 3.4 GPA, wasn’t top 10%. However, I did take part in a ton of extra-curriculars though and also had a lot of volunteering. Not by choice, my mom made me do it all
This post was edited on 5/25/18 at 1:53 pm
Posted on 5/25/18 at 1:52 pm to TDcline
I played football at Air Force, had the same opportunity at West Point. My brother in law is a West Point alum, but not an athlete.
My experience was way different than his—
If you’re an athlete, the academy staff will walk you through the process.
You have to be nominated by a congressman or senator and you have to receive an appointment from the academy.
You’ll do the application, write papers, go to interviews, physical fitness tests... it’s a process.
I remember physical fitness test—on your knees on one end of the gym, basketball in hand and see how far you could throw it towards other end of the gym. I threw it from end of the court clear across to the other end about halfway up the wall.
I was 8th in my graduating class, decent ACT and SAT. Decent but not good enough to really push my application through. What does West Point do?
They arrange for me to go to an Army recruiter Office who proctors the ACT for me privately so I could retake the test and up my score. It worked.
I had the choice to play at both—it came down to me wanting to be in the Air Force over the Army.
Let me know if any questions.
All academies have liaison officers assigned to school districts all over the country and they are glad to help.
My experience was way different than his—
If you’re an athlete, the academy staff will walk you through the process.
You have to be nominated by a congressman or senator and you have to receive an appointment from the academy.
You’ll do the application, write papers, go to interviews, physical fitness tests... it’s a process.
I remember physical fitness test—on your knees on one end of the gym, basketball in hand and see how far you could throw it towards other end of the gym. I threw it from end of the court clear across to the other end about halfway up the wall.
I was 8th in my graduating class, decent ACT and SAT. Decent but not good enough to really push my application through. What does West Point do?
They arrange for me to go to an Army recruiter Office who proctors the ACT for me privately so I could retake the test and up my score. It worked.
I had the choice to play at both—it came down to me wanting to be in the Air Force over the Army.
Let me know if any questions.
All academies have liaison officers assigned to school districts all over the country and they are glad to help.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 1:52 pm to TDcline
quote:
Primarily West Point or the U.S. Naval Academy?
How soon do you need to start the application process, and what is that process like?
If your kid isn't balls to the wall military for life, I wouldn't recommend it. I know a lot of people that went out of my HS. Most to AFA, but a couple to West Point and one kid to Coast Guard Academy. My HS had the most AFA in the country, I knew like 5-6 at one point. One was a good friend, one a girl I dated bro.
You are basically starting your military career at 18, to start training to become a high ranking officer.
My point is simply that most people are better off going to ROTC through a normal university. Live and be a dumb 18-22 year old, with some military stuff on the side.
You don't get a lot of chances in the academies to be dumb, and something like a drunk in public can ruin your military career at 18 instead of being a dumb mistake for a 18 year old.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 1:53 pm to TDcline
For USNA, probably start by talking to your area Blue & Gold officer.
LINK
I'd imagine West Point has a similar organization.
If your area person isn't responsive, there's probably other good info / people you can reach out to on the site I linked... and there's a place on the home page where you can request more info.
I assume class sizes are similar to when I went (early to mid 90s)... Each entering class was in the neighborhood of 1000 students at USNA itself, and another 200-300 at the Naval Academy Prep School in Newport, RI. I'll list the breakdown (per my memory, which might be suspect) so you can gauge the probabilities a little better:
- 2 congressional appointments... don't quite remember if that was per state or per Senator per state, or if the House of Reps could nominate... which I doubt off the top of my head. So, if 2 per state, that's 100 per year (or approx 10% of the incoming class of 1000); if 2 per Senator, 200 is approx 20% of incoming class... this is very much the basis of people posting you need to have an in with a politician. (edit to add: I see other people above my post saying congressmen can recommend more than two... maybe up to 10? ... I don't know... they might be right about that. Wasn't really a topic that came up between classmates after the first day or two.)
- Athletic scholarships... Football is probably about 80 students. Add in the various men & women basketball, baseball, swimming, track, etc., it was probably 200 or so athletic scholarships (another 20% or so).
- Prior enlisted. Secretary of the Navy can nominate / give appointments as well. I don't know if there's a cap, but was in the neighborhood of 80-100 (approx 10%) enlisted people when I went... this is how I got in. I was an enlisted Marine when I applied and got a SECNAV appointment. (If your kid really, really wants in to a service academy, this is one back door... though it's definitely a low probability gamble to enlist with the hopes of getting an appointment. If you do keep this option open, going enlisted Navy and getting into the nuclear submarine program is probably the best bet... I'd guess half of the prior enlisted contingent at USNA were from that community (had to be somewhat smart to be a Nuke).
- I might be missing another category, but think the rest of the class (very roughly 50% of the class) were called "at large" appointments... I don't know the application process (due to coming in through the enlisted ranks: I only remember filling out an application and getting 2 officer recommendations), but I suspect these students went through some sort of interview process beyond submitting the application with references... This is worth mentioning, because imho, I suspect congressmen are not interviewing many, if any, students directly, so if you aren't one of the lucky small number to get the congressional bid, there's still hope for an at large bid when the administrators look to fill in the rest of the class. (*** To this end, I recall one of my classmates mentioning working as a Blue & Gold officer and saying he helped interview prospective candidates... so, again, getting in good with your area's Blue & Gold officer is probably the easiest way to gain access to and make a favorable impression with someone who might have actual influence in the process.***)
The 200-300 students at Naval Academy Prep School (NAPS) were mostly athletes who didn't have a strong enough academic background to go straight to USNA and prior enlisted (like myself) who had been out of school for a couple years, a small contingent of Coast Guard Academy kids, and I think my year at NAPS had 2 or 3 kids who went on to the Merchant Marine Academy.
LINK
I'd imagine West Point has a similar organization.
If your area person isn't responsive, there's probably other good info / people you can reach out to on the site I linked... and there's a place on the home page where you can request more info.
I assume class sizes are similar to when I went (early to mid 90s)... Each entering class was in the neighborhood of 1000 students at USNA itself, and another 200-300 at the Naval Academy Prep School in Newport, RI. I'll list the breakdown (per my memory, which might be suspect) so you can gauge the probabilities a little better:
- 2 congressional appointments... don't quite remember if that was per state or per Senator per state, or if the House of Reps could nominate... which I doubt off the top of my head. So, if 2 per state, that's 100 per year (or approx 10% of the incoming class of 1000); if 2 per Senator, 200 is approx 20% of incoming class... this is very much the basis of people posting you need to have an in with a politician. (edit to add: I see other people above my post saying congressmen can recommend more than two... maybe up to 10? ... I don't know... they might be right about that. Wasn't really a topic that came up between classmates after the first day or two.)
- Athletic scholarships... Football is probably about 80 students. Add in the various men & women basketball, baseball, swimming, track, etc., it was probably 200 or so athletic scholarships (another 20% or so).
- Prior enlisted. Secretary of the Navy can nominate / give appointments as well. I don't know if there's a cap, but was in the neighborhood of 80-100 (approx 10%) enlisted people when I went... this is how I got in. I was an enlisted Marine when I applied and got a SECNAV appointment. (If your kid really, really wants in to a service academy, this is one back door... though it's definitely a low probability gamble to enlist with the hopes of getting an appointment. If you do keep this option open, going enlisted Navy and getting into the nuclear submarine program is probably the best bet... I'd guess half of the prior enlisted contingent at USNA were from that community (had to be somewhat smart to be a Nuke).
- I might be missing another category, but think the rest of the class (very roughly 50% of the class) were called "at large" appointments... I don't know the application process (due to coming in through the enlisted ranks: I only remember filling out an application and getting 2 officer recommendations), but I suspect these students went through some sort of interview process beyond submitting the application with references... This is worth mentioning, because imho, I suspect congressmen are not interviewing many, if any, students directly, so if you aren't one of the lucky small number to get the congressional bid, there's still hope for an at large bid when the administrators look to fill in the rest of the class. (*** To this end, I recall one of my classmates mentioning working as a Blue & Gold officer and saying he helped interview prospective candidates... so, again, getting in good with your area's Blue & Gold officer is probably the easiest way to gain access to and make a favorable impression with someone who might have actual influence in the process.***)
The 200-300 students at Naval Academy Prep School (NAPS) were mostly athletes who didn't have a strong enough academic background to go straight to USNA and prior enlisted (like myself) who had been out of school for a couple years, a small contingent of Coast Guard Academy kids, and I think my year at NAPS had 2 or 3 kids who went on to the Merchant Marine Academy.
This post was edited on 5/25/18 at 2:01 pm
Posted on 5/25/18 at 2:33 pm to TDcline
Best to have an appointment from a US Congressman, and have very good grades.
I received my appointment to USMA West Point from Senator J. Bennett Johnston, he was an old friend and JAG Corps colleague of my mother's boss. It was also his alma mater. Helps to have political contacts...
I received my appointment to USMA West Point from Senator J. Bennett Johnston, he was an old friend and JAG Corps colleague of my mother's boss. It was also his alma mater. Helps to have political contacts...
Posted on 5/25/18 at 2:54 pm to TDcline
If you're not in a travel academy by 8, your kid is screwed.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 2:57 pm to ksayetiger
quote:
I think the kid needs to grow up and do it himself and not have daddy do it for him
This.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 3:03 pm to TDcline
Send them to a military prep school. I went to one and pretty much everyone that wanted to go to an academy got an appointment.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 3:19 pm to JoseVargasTX
I’ve known wealthy, connected kids not getting in, and I’ve known others from much more modest backgrounds being accepted.
One just graduated from the Air Force Academy. His father has always been out of the picture. His mother basically gave him to his grandmother to raise, and has been out of his life for years. He was far from having any connections.
The process is long. He had to jump through a bunch of hoops, but he had a lot of help from his high school administration and the AF liaison officer. He is also a great kid, despite the tough cards he had been dealt in his family life.
I think a lot comes down to luck, because there is no guaranteed requirements or process to be accepted. The luck is how many other kids from a state or district are applying or attending. Your chances are much harder if you are one of dozens of students trying to get a congressional endorsement.
One just graduated from the Air Force Academy. His father has always been out of the picture. His mother basically gave him to his grandmother to raise, and has been out of his life for years. He was far from having any connections.
The process is long. He had to jump through a bunch of hoops, but he had a lot of help from his high school administration and the AF liaison officer. He is also a great kid, despite the tough cards he had been dealt in his family life.
I think a lot comes down to luck, because there is no guaranteed requirements or process to be accepted. The luck is how many other kids from a state or district are applying or attending. Your chances are much harder if you are one of dozens of students trying to get a congressional endorsement.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 3:24 pm to CoachChappy
It is not as hard as alot of people think
If you can play a sport it is alot easier as well
If you can play a sport it is alot easier as well
Posted on 5/25/18 at 3:25 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:Not even close to as difficult
As far as academics and test scores, it's basically on par with getting into an Ivy.
ETA: Had a 3.6 and 30 on the ACT in high school and had everything setup for Naval Academy
This post was edited on 5/25/18 at 3:29 pm
Posted on 5/25/18 at 3:38 pm to lsupride87
Also look into the Corps of Cadets at Texas A&M and Virginia Tech. The same quality military/academic education with the benefits of a regular university (ie lots more girls there than at the academies).
Posted on 5/25/18 at 4:02 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
and your commission is just as good as theirs
I have a Regular Army commission and I think that most ROTC folks have an Army Reserve commission. Regular is better, IMHO.
I think that everybody who grads from a service academy has a Regular commission.
But the pay is the same, that's true.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 4:10 pm to TDcline
As strange as this may sound, the academies are pretty liberal. Even though the vast majority of the military is conservative leaning.
Posted on 5/25/18 at 4:11 pm to athenslife101
I'd rather go to southern than the naval academy
He probably knew he wasn't cut out for a service academy
He probably knew he wasn't cut out for a service academy
Posted on 5/25/18 at 4:12 pm to Champagne
quote:
I think that everybody who grads from a service academy has a Regular commission.
They did at one time. I think everybody gets a reserve commission now and you're selected for Regular or not at the O-4 level.
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