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re: 2018 Saints Off-season Roster Mega Thread
Posted on 1/16/18 at 10:43 am to hendersonshands
Posted on 1/16/18 at 10:43 am to hendersonshands
quote:
We don't get off the cap hook for Fairley's contract if he has a life threatening medical issue?
Still being mediated. I think we pushed it aside during the season but I expect something to happen before FA.
I expect he'll get to keep between $2-4 mil of the remaining bonus, which will save us an additional $2-4 mil over the $1 mil saved if we cut him.
I think we'd also split out the remaining bonus to not take the full hit this year.
All told I expect Fairley's cap number to be between $2-4 mil this year.
1
Posted on 1/16/18 at 10:57 am to GMoney2600
Drew Brees and Alex Okafor are key priorities. Drew is obvious obviously. Senio Kelemete is also incredibly valuable but he could get starter money out there and Saints probably can't pay starter money to Mr. Backup although during the course of a season, he's likely not much of a backup.
I feel Vaccaro is replaceable and money could be better spent elsewhere.
WR and TE are also important positions of needed improvement.
Klein and Teo proved to be very capable players for us. Anzalone has a decent future if can stay healthy. With these players being pretty versatile, saints can look to improve any of the LB spots for next year, probably need to add a new guy here.
I feel Vaccaro is replaceable and money could be better spent elsewhere.
WR and TE are also important positions of needed improvement.
Klein and Teo proved to be very capable players for us. Anzalone has a decent future if can stay healthy. With these players being pretty versatile, saints can look to improve any of the LB spots for next year, probably need to add a new guy here.
Posted on 1/16/18 at 1:18 pm to Chad504boy
We almost need to keep kelemete or add another guy as a top priority with the way armstead gets hurt.
Teo s contract looks better everyday just wish we could of gotten okafor on a two year deal cause he is going to get a little bump
Teo s contract looks better everyday just wish we could of gotten okafor on a two year deal cause he is going to get a little bump
Posted on 1/16/18 at 1:54 pm to Lsujacket66
quote:
a Rueben Foster type LB
As much as I'd hate to say it, Rashaan Evans could be a good pick. Reminds me a lot of Debo Jones and I think that speedy mike is where a lot of defenses are headed these days. But I think we play it safe and pick the OSU end Sam Hubbard.
Posted on 1/16/18 at 6:17 pm to GMoney2600
Great job with this thread. 
Posted on 1/17/18 at 9:38 am to GMoney2600
Thanks for doing the heavy lifting.
It saves me time looking this up.
I just wait to see your post.
It saves me time looking this up.
I just wait to see your post.
Posted on 1/17/18 at 10:26 am to GMoney2600
I hope there isn't a big change-up this year like we've had in previous years. Keep this team relatively intact, sign 2 of the 3 between Okafor, Kelemete, and Vaccaro. Maybe sign one big FA, and a few 2nd tier guys, good draft, and we are good. Brees will be resigned for sure.
Posted on 1/17/18 at 12:26 pm to GMoney2600
I agree.
However I think we need a FA TE and WR.
We don’t have time left with Drew to take 2-3 years to develope this talent.
We need these two positions to step in and start right away.
There is outstanding talent available if we can afford them.
TE Cameron Brate, Tyler Eiffert...
WR Jarvis Landry ....several others available
However I think we need a FA TE and WR.
We don’t have time left with Drew to take 2-3 years to develope this talent.
We need these two positions to step in and start right away.
There is outstanding talent available if we can afford them.
TE Cameron Brate, Tyler Eiffert...
WR Jarvis Landry ....several others available
Posted on 1/17/18 at 1:46 pm to GMoney2600
For anyone hoping for a game changer to go to FA
quote:
ESPN Cowboys reporter Todd Archer expects Dallas to use the franchise tag on impending free agent DE DeMarcus Lawrence if they're unable to sign him to a long-term deal.
It's a no-brainer move. The Cowboys have been starved for pass-rush help the past few years, and Lawrence finally gave it to them this past season, amassing 14.5 sacks and forcing four fumbles after combining for nine sacks and two forced fumbles in his first 32 career games. Injuries and suspensions played a part in Lawrence's slow start to his career. Lawrence was Pro Football Focus' No. 3-ranked 4-3 end in 2017. The franchise tag would cost about $17 million.
Posted on 1/17/18 at 1:48 pm to 50_Tiger
Star L.
quote:
The Charlotte Observer believes the Panthers will have a tough time re-signing impending free agent DT Star Lotulelei. The Panthers gave fellow DT Kawann Short a big-money deal last spring, and Lotulelei is coming off arguably his worst season. Last summer, the Observer believed Lotulelei's future would depend on Vernon Butler's 2017 play. The 2016 first-rounder took a (small) step forward. Veteran Kyle Love is also signed cheaply for 2018.
Posted on 1/17/18 at 3:35 pm to SwampyLSU
quote:
Sam Hubbard
I really like Hubbard, he always seems to cause problems in the backfield on plays even if he doesn’t make the tackle or the sack. I think he could pair really well on the opposite side of Cam.
Just think if you could retain Okafor on a decent deal, and have Cam, Okafor, Hendrickson, and Hubbard keeping each other fresh during the season. That is a nice DE group.
Posted on 1/17/18 at 7:24 pm to bonethug0108
Fairley should get to keep some of the money, but it shouldn't count against the cap. It was a freak thing, and it would be in everyone's best interest for him to get paid but not count against the cap.
Posted on 1/17/18 at 11:25 pm to ForeverEllisHugh
The point of him getting paid was to play. If he can't play (even if not his fault) he shouldn't get the money.
I have no ill will towards him but the contract was signed to play football. Imo in these situations the player shoudn't be entitled to any of the money.
But being that signing bonuses are guaranteed upon signing, you enter into a weird space amdw that's why there is always arbitration on these things and the player winds up with a percent of the bonus.
I have no ill will towards him but the contract was signed to play football. Imo in these situations the player shoudn't be entitled to any of the money.
But being that signing bonuses are guaranteed upon signing, you enter into a weird space amdw that's why there is always arbitration on these things and the player winds up with a percent of the bonus.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 12:10 am to windshieldman
quote:
I hope there isn't a big change-up this year like we've had in previous years. Keep this team relatively intact, sign 2 of the 3 between Okafor, Kelemete, and Vaccaro.
I disagree. With Brees only having 2-3 years of fringe elite play left, I think this is the time to make a splash. Unfortunately, it's a shitty free agent class for our needs.
Lawrence is a stud, but the Cowboys will keep him. Ansah is a possibility, but after those two, there aren't many great weakside DE's available.
Not really any good LB's available, though that's one position I'd rather just stick tight at in FA. No great players, but a capable rotation that will be fine if our secondary and DL play well (which I expect).
Joyner would be a great get at S, but I'm not sure that anyone else available would be a big upgrade over Vaccaro. Definitely more consistent, but not better than KV at his ~B level.
Landry would be a super Snead, but will cost a ton. Richardson from Seattle and Arob would be solid gets. Josh Gordon would be a great, reasonable cost gamble, but it could bite us in the arse and I doubt we'd consider him after dumping the locker room attitude players two years ago.
Speaking of, I'm not sure that we would take Graham back. Shitty TE class, though Eifert would be interesting and shouldn't cost too much with his injury issues.
Again, I think that we should make a splash in FA, but I don't think that this FA class helps us too much, especially with some teams (like SF) having a frickload of money to spend. The "good" news is that I think that Graham will be more gettable than people think. Plus this FA class has a lot of acceptable starters @ interior OL, so I think that we can keep Kelemete without breaking the bank. But in terms of "holy shite" players (like we thought Byrd would be), we have few options. My ideal, realistic offseason would be to sign Ansah, re-sign KV and Kelemete, and use the first few picks on WR/TE. Ditch Fleener (RIP) and Hooman, then sign Gates or Watson on the cheap to show the rookie TE the ropes.
All that said, with my thinking that we should make a splash (and I suspect that Payton agrees), this is one time that I could see us trading the 1st for a player. Haven't done any digging into really good players that might be available, though. I suspect that the Saints could get ODB for the first rounder if they want, but he only has one season remaining @$8m, and they're possibly stuck franchising him next season. But if they want to go all out in Brees's final seasons, why not? Makes sense for the rebuilding Giants, too. But it's tough to trade any picks (much less the 1st rounder) with how well we've drafter the past two seasons.
This post was edited on 1/18/18 at 12:14 am
Posted on 1/18/18 at 12:14 am to THRILLHO
So guys, I just noticed spotrac changed something about Strief's contract today.
LINK /
Before it was:
2018: 1.1mil base, 1.1mil prorated (signing), 2.8mil roster, 100k workout = 5.1mil cap hit, 4mil salary
Now it is:
2018: 1.0mil base, 1.1mil prorated (signing), 1.675mil roster, 100k workout = 3.875mil cap hit, 2.775mil salary
Did he just take a pay cut to stay? If so we get another 1.225mil of cap relief ontop of the 32mil.
I think his vet minimum is 1.015mil though, so I'm not entirely even sure if spotrac is just wrong or not lol
LINK /
Before it was:
2018: 1.1mil base, 1.1mil prorated (signing), 2.8mil roster, 100k workout = 5.1mil cap hit, 4mil salary
Now it is:
2018: 1.0mil base, 1.1mil prorated (signing), 1.675mil roster, 100k workout = 3.875mil cap hit, 2.775mil salary
Did he just take a pay cut to stay? If so we get another 1.225mil of cap relief ontop of the 32mil.
I think his vet minimum is 1.015mil though, so I'm not entirely even sure if spotrac is just wrong or not lol
This post was edited on 1/18/18 at 12:16 am
Posted on 1/18/18 at 12:19 am to htran90
My only guess for the change was his failing to meet "likely to be earned" incentives this season due to only playing 2 games. Haven't dug into his contract, though.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 12:24 am to GMoney2600
quote:
-Fleener (8.0 mil) - 4.8 mil dead money hit. Hopefully he takes the paycut, b/c that's a big dead money hit.
-Hill (2.833 mil) - 833 k dead money hit.
-Hooman (1.933 mil) - 333 k dead money hit. I think we end up cutting him.
-Strief (5.1 mil) - 1.1 mil dead money hit. Hopefully he takes a paycut, but cutting him will be easy due to his contract.
-Morstead (4.85 mil) - 700 k dead money hit. I assume we pay him.
-Fairley (7.0 mil) - 6.0 mil dead money hit. We only save 1.0 mil against the cap, but it's necessary.
-Kikaha (1.676 ml) - 522 k dead money hit. Hopefully he recovers well, b/c it's going to be an uphill battle for him to make the team.
-Stupar (2.215 mil) - 400 k dead money hit. I think he's the odd man out if we add another LB.
-Banjo (1.8 mil) - 100 k dead money hit. I assume we cut him based on his contract. He did play good on ST's, so who knows?
We're looking at 32mil right now, honestly the most sense is to cut the following 4:
1. Stupar - need another quality LBer and he is replaceable on ST obviously. He doesn't bring much as a backup.
2. Banjo - Hardee has taken his control as the gunner, I think Lasco being back also makes his case for ST ace > Banjo. Can't be paying 1.8mil for another STer IMHO.
3. Hooman - speculation, but I think we get another TE and at that point its either fleener or Hooman and I think at the end of the day its Hooman.
4. Fairley - man oh man...how I don't want to put this here. We just don't know his health is permanent/retirement worthy or how much we get back if he were to retire. Lets just give it the 1mil as a baseline amount and not overthink this. assume the worst, hope for the best right?
That brings us to 36.7mil, adding 6.7m of dead money.
The following 2 are interesting, can go either way:
1. Fleener - 3.2mil saved, 6th concussion. Gotta wonder if he's worth the 3.2mil or not. Is it worth eating 4.8mil more dead money?? You also think of the future: you save 9mil in 2019 as opposed to only 5.8mil if you do it next year. But its about depth and numbers and if you cut Hooman, Fleener stays, you can't go into 2018 with only 1 TE that knows the system. I think you put it off a year, the gain is not enough and you're not cap strapped to make this decision. You also don't want to eat more dead money...we can still upgrade and keep him there as a 40% snap TE too.
2. Strief - 4mil saved for a backup OT at this point. I don't know if that spotrac thing is right or not, but I'm gonna assume its wrong and leave it as it is. He's still a phenomenal OT before the injury and arguably has 2 more years left in him I honestly believe. He leaves, you gotta go find another OT to groom, he stays you get a serviceable backup and quality RT if Ramczyk or Armstead get hurt and can put off drafting another OT. I think this is where you just extend him, but making it a 3rd year to make it a dummy year. Something along the lines of 3yr/9mil and 4mil signing bonus
- 2018: 1.1m base (guaranteed), 2.43m prorated, 100k workout = 3.63m cap
- 2019: 1.2m base, 1.33m prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 3.13m cap
- 2020: 1.4m base, 1.33m prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 3.33m cap
That pushes our cap total to: 38.15mil going into FA.
Next post, a few more moves to add
This post was edited on 1/18/18 at 12:58 am
Posted on 1/18/18 at 12:58 am to htran90
So after cuts and 1 extension, we move onto 3 notable names:
1. Larry Warford and his 2.65mil roster bonus
2. Mark Ingram and his 1 year left
3. Thomas "Chad" Morstead and his 1 year left
Warford - you already know they're going to figure his number out. Either by extending him an additional year or converting that roster bonus (and some base salary) into a signing bonus. Lets make it easy, convert it and turn it into 1.8mil of cap space
Ingram - half of people will hate it, but I think Ingram is a must for Kamara. I saw those runs up the middle and Kamara simply doesn't have that vision that Ingram developed and why not secure something for the rest of Brees' career. He has performed as a top 5 RB the last 2 years and its time to extend him to keep him through his prime. Kamara is the shiny 800/800 toy, but Ingram is the dependable 1000/400 primary back. 3yr/21mil, 9mil signing bonus. Effectively making his contract 4yr/25.6mil and backloaded.
2018 - 1.0m base, 3.895m prorated = 4.895 cap hit
2019 - 3.0m base, 2.25m prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 5.85m cap hit
2020 - 4.0m base, 2.25m prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 6.85m cap hit
2021 - 6.8m base, 2.25m prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 9.65m cap hit
Takes his 6.2mil cap hit down to 4.895m and saving 1.3mil. That 2021 cap hit is huge, but we save 7.4m if we cut him if he's 32 and ailing.
Morstead is going to be 32 and still bombing punts. Chad loves him and I think its time to extend him. His last contract was 6/21.885m (3.6475m/yr) which is the highest paid next year. Colquitt's avg was 3.75m in 2017 and an average punter makes 2m
He has 4.15m left, lets just extend him 4/14mil, 4m signing bonus. Effectively giving him a 5/18.15m contract (3.63m/yr)
2018 - 1.0mil base, 1.5mil prorated = 2.5mil cap hit
2019 - 2.0mil base, 800k prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 3.4mil cap hit
2020 - 2.0mil base, 800k prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 3.4mil cap hit
2021 - 3.0mil base, 800k prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 4.4mil cap hit
2022 - 3.75mil base, 800k prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 5.15mil cap hit
Effectively saving 2.35m in cap space for 2018
That brings our tally to: 43.7mil to play with in free agency. Assuming Brees eats up 18mil of cap space, we can spend 31.7mil.
Also that's with 50 on the roster after those moves, meaning we're in pretty solid shape cap wise.
ETA: With those moves, assuming we also give peat the 5th year option (I think that's 9mil??)
We'd have free agents in 2019
Manti Te'o
Josh Hill
Craig Robertson
Hau'oli Kikaha
PJ Williams
Tyeler Davison
Ken Crawley
Tommylee Lewis
Mitch Loewen
Wil Lutz
Justin Hardee
to deal with and depending on the contracts we sign this year, we're looking at maybe 30-40mil in cap space next year too.
1. Larry Warford and his 2.65mil roster bonus
2. Mark Ingram and his 1 year left
3. Thomas "Chad" Morstead and his 1 year left
Warford - you already know they're going to figure his number out. Either by extending him an additional year or converting that roster bonus (and some base salary) into a signing bonus. Lets make it easy, convert it and turn it into 1.8mil of cap space
Ingram - half of people will hate it, but I think Ingram is a must for Kamara. I saw those runs up the middle and Kamara simply doesn't have that vision that Ingram developed and why not secure something for the rest of Brees' career. He has performed as a top 5 RB the last 2 years and its time to extend him to keep him through his prime. Kamara is the shiny 800/800 toy, but Ingram is the dependable 1000/400 primary back. 3yr/21mil, 9mil signing bonus. Effectively making his contract 4yr/25.6mil and backloaded.
2018 - 1.0m base, 3.895m prorated = 4.895 cap hit
2019 - 3.0m base, 2.25m prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 5.85m cap hit
2020 - 4.0m base, 2.25m prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 6.85m cap hit
2021 - 6.8m base, 2.25m prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 9.65m cap hit
Takes his 6.2mil cap hit down to 4.895m and saving 1.3mil. That 2021 cap hit is huge, but we save 7.4m if we cut him if he's 32 and ailing.
Morstead is going to be 32 and still bombing punts. Chad loves him and I think its time to extend him. His last contract was 6/21.885m (3.6475m/yr) which is the highest paid next year. Colquitt's avg was 3.75m in 2017 and an average punter makes 2m
He has 4.15m left, lets just extend him 4/14mil, 4m signing bonus. Effectively giving him a 5/18.15m contract (3.63m/yr)
2018 - 1.0mil base, 1.5mil prorated = 2.5mil cap hit
2019 - 2.0mil base, 800k prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 3.4mil cap hit
2020 - 2.0mil base, 800k prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 3.4mil cap hit
2021 - 3.0mil base, 800k prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 4.4mil cap hit
2022 - 3.75mil base, 800k prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 5.15mil cap hit
Effectively saving 2.35m in cap space for 2018
That brings our tally to: 43.7mil to play with in free agency. Assuming Brees eats up 18mil of cap space, we can spend 31.7mil.
Also that's with 50 on the roster after those moves, meaning we're in pretty solid shape cap wise.
ETA: With those moves, assuming we also give peat the 5th year option (I think that's 9mil??)
We'd have free agents in 2019
Manti Te'o
Josh Hill
Craig Robertson
Hau'oli Kikaha
PJ Williams
Tyeler Davison
Ken Crawley
Tommylee Lewis
Mitch Loewen
Wil Lutz
Justin Hardee
to deal with and depending on the contracts we sign this year, we're looking at maybe 30-40mil in cap space next year too.
This post was edited on 1/19/18 at 12:15 am
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:21 am to htran90
quote:
Strief - 4mil saved for a backup OT at this point. I don't know if that spotrac thing is right or not, but I'm gonna assume its wrong and leave it as it is. He's still a phenomenal OT before the injury and arguably has 2 more years left in him I honestly believe. He leaves, you gotta go find another OT to groom, he stays you get a serviceable backup and quality RT if Ramczyk or Armstead get hurt and can put off drafting another OT. I think this is where you just extend him, but making it a 3rd year to make it a dummy year. Something along the lines of 3yr/9mil and 4mil signing bonus
- 2018: 1.1m base (guaranteed), 2.43m prorated, 100k workout = 3.63m cap
- 2019: 1.2m base, 1.33m prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 3.13m cap
- 2020: 1.4m base, 1.33m prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 3.33m cap
That would be sweet. Legit backup at RT for a good price. The fact that Armstead gets injured often makes this very important. Good thing is that Ramczyk & Peat can both replace Armstead at LT. If we don't re-sign Kelemete...you have to assume that Ramczyk replaces Armstead at LT & Strief replaces Ramczyk at RT.
Ramczyk, Peat, Unger, Warford, Strief is a damn good secondary lineup on the O-Line. If we can somehow keep Kelemete, Strief, & LeRibeus in 2018...we might not even have to draft any O-Lineman. Our 5 legit starters, Kelemete, Strief, LeRibeus, & Tom would be more than sufficient. If we do have those 9 O-Lineman going into the draft...using a draft pick on the O-Line would be unnecessarily overloading the position imo (we would most likely be forced into cutting a rosterable player, which is very bad business). I'd be ok with O-Line in the 6th or 7th round, b/c those guys can usually just be stashed on the practice squad without being poached.
quote:
Ingram - half of people will hate it, but I think Ingram is a must for Kamara. I saw those runs up the middle and Kamara simply doesn't have that vision that Ingram developed and why not secure something for the rest of Brees' career. He has performed as a top 5 RB the last 2 years and its time to extend him to keep him through his prime. Kamara is the shiny 800/800 toy, but Ingram is the dependable 1000/400 primary back. 3yr/21mil, 9mil signing bonus. Effectively making his contract 4yr/25.6mil and backloaded. 2018 - 1.0m base, 3.895m prorated = 4.895 cap hit 2019 - 3.0m base, 2.25m prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 5.85m cap hit 2020 - 4.0m base, 2.25m prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 6.85m cap hit 2021 - 6.8m base, 2.25m prorated, 500k roster, 100k workout = 9.65m cap hit
I'm all about keeping Ingram around, but I'd be more comfortable if the deal was 3 years (not 4). He's still in his prime, but that can change very fast with RB's. I'd assume we get 2 more good years out of him at least, then make that 3rd year very easy to cut him. He's around the age where RB's start to decline. Good thing is that he wasn't used a ton in the early stages of his career (not a lot of tread for his age).
If he does end up having 3 more good years left in him...that 4 year contract is perfect though.
quote:
Fleener - 3.2mil saved, 6th concussion. Gotta wonder if he's worth the 3.2mil or not. Is it worth eating 4.8mil more dead money?? You also think of the future: you save 9mil in 2019 as opposed to only 5.8mil if you do it next year. But its about depth and numbers and if you cut Hooman, Fleener stays, you can't go into 2018 with only 1 TE that knows the system. I think you put it off a year, the gain is not enough and you're not cap strapped to make this decision. You also don't want to eat more dead money...we can still upgrade and keep him there as a 40% snap TE too.
This situation should be pretty simple imo. Either Fleener takes the paycut (which I hope he does) or we cut him. I'd rather pay 4.8 mil in dead money (while gaining 3.2 in cap space), than pay 8.0 mil for his services (makes me want to puke).
2 most likely outcomes imo
-Fleener takes a paycut, Hill plays the final year of his contract, Hooman is cut, & we bring in a new TE (F.A. or draft).
-Fleener gets cut, both Hill & Hooman play the final year of their contracts, & we bring in a new TE (F.A. or draft).
I think the 4 most likely guys to get cut (in order to get more cap space) are...Hooman, Stupar, Banjo, & Kikaha. I also think Fleener & Strief either take a paycut, or they won't be playing here in 2018.
This post was edited on 1/18/18 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 1/18/18 at 6:37 am to GMoney2600
One more thing that nobody seems to be talking about is getting a backup for Marcus Williams at FS. He's literally the only true FS on the entire roster & we actually lucked out this year that he was healthy for the most part. Pretty sure Vonn Bell was his backup at FS this year, which is basically asking to get torched against the pass.
Assuming we don't sign his backup via free agency...I'd say it's extremely likely we draft a guy in the 4th or 5th (2 picks). Maybe even as far as the 6th (2 picks as well I think) if the scouts are certain about the guy. Good news is that you can usually get a legit backup Safety (that can develop into a starter eventually) in rounds 4 & 5 of every draft. 6th round in some drafts.
So if we don't re-sign Vaccaro...we're going to need 2 more Safeties to go along with Marcus Williams & Vonn Bell. Rafael Bush would be ok as the #5 Safety I guess.
Assuming we don't sign his backup via free agency...I'd say it's extremely likely we draft a guy in the 4th or 5th (2 picks). Maybe even as far as the 6th (2 picks as well I think) if the scouts are certain about the guy. Good news is that you can usually get a legit backup Safety (that can develop into a starter eventually) in rounds 4 & 5 of every draft. 6th round in some drafts.
So if we don't re-sign Vaccaro...we're going to need 2 more Safeties to go along with Marcus Williams & Vonn Bell. Rafael Bush would be ok as the #5 Safety I guess.
This post was edited on 1/18/18 at 6:47 am
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