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Started By
Message
The board room is killing America. And themselves.
Posted on 11/19/25 at 12:20 am
Posted on 11/19/25 at 12:20 am
Start with one company and one plant. A refrigerator plant employing two thousand people. On paper the math looks simple. It costs about five hundred eighty dollars to make a refrigerator in the United States. It costs about four hundred sixty dollars to make the same refrigerator overseas. The moment a consulting firm shows the board those numbers, the conclusion seems obvious. Moving production offshore produces one hundred twenty dollars of extra profit per unit. At a million units a year that is one hundred twenty million dollars of additional profit. The company gets bigger margins. Executives get bigger bonuses. Shareholders get higher dividends. From the perspective of the boardroom the decision is not only rational, it is almost irresistible.
But the country is dealing with a completely different equation. When the plant closes, two thousand workers fall from sixty-thousand-dollar manufacturing jobs to forty-thousand-dollar service jobs. Multiply the twenty-thousand-dollar gap by two thousand workers and forty million dollars evaporates from household income. Then apply a simple multiplier. A 1.3 multiplier means another six hundred jobs indirectly tied to the plant take the same hit. Multiply twenty thousand by six hundred and that is another twelve million dollars gone. The national income loss now stands at fifty-two million dollars every single year. And the consumer does not get much in return. That one hundred twenty dollars of corporate savings does not flow through as a one hundred twenty-dollar price cut. Maybe half eventually shows up in the price. Most families will save maybe sixty dollars the one time they buy the appliance, which for a refrigerator is once every decade. Spread across all households the yearly benefit is only a few dollars. That is the entire consumer gain. A handful of dollars per year. In exchange the country permanently loses fifty-two million dollars of wages every year. In this one micro example the boardroom makes a short-term gain while the nation absorbs a long-term loss.
Now scale this up, because what I just described is exactly what has actually happened in the United States for the past quarter century. The boardroom made the offshoring decision again and again. Not one plant. Not ten plants. Thousands of plants. Millions of jobs. Every time the pattern repeated. A manufacturing job became a service job. The wage dropped from something like sixty to something like forty. The multiplier kicked in and wiped out the surrounding jobs. Household incomes sagged. Entire regions fell. Real wages flattened. Purchasing power sank. The middle class stopped growing. Younger generations fell behind their parents. Affordability collapsed in autos, housing, appliances, college, and almost every major expense. The middle of the country was squeezed down to the point where it could not fuel the very consumer economy that American corporations depended on. This is not theory. It is the lived history of the United States from the late 1990s until today. This is the macro version of that refrigerator plant playing out over and over until it became the defining economic trend of the era.
And here is the part that rarely gets said out loud. The boardroom did not just act against the nation’s interest. It acted against its own long-term interest as well. By pushing millions of workers down the income ladder, corporate America shrank the very customer base it depends on. The bottom sixty to seventy percent of the population now struggles to buy a new car, struggles to buy a home, struggles to keep up with basic costs. New car demand collapses the moment you remove the top ten percent of earners. Appliance replacements are stretched out longer and longer. Housing demand is sagging as younger buyers cannot afford to enter the market. Corporate America optimized so aggressively for short-term margins that it slowly dismantled the source of long-term demand. They squeezed the consumer until the consumer could no longer buy. They won the quarter and lost the decade. They cut labor to save money and ended up starving their own market. The top ten percent still spends, so from the top the world looks fine. But beneath that thin layer the domestic market that once powered American growth has been hollowed out. That is not efficiency. That is not optimal allocation. That is a system undercutting the very engine that once made it strong.
And this brings us to the final point. People love to invoke the invisible hand. They say the market will allocate resources efficiently. But what exactly is efficient about a system where the incentives reward decisions that weaken national income, collapse long-term demand, and eventually reduce the firm’s own customer base. This is not the invisible hand. This is an incentive failure. The boardroom’s math diverged from the nation’s math, and without a corrective mechanism there was nothing to bring those interests back into alignment. A tariff at the beginning of this process would have done exactly that. A tariff would have erased the one hundred twenty-dollar savings and made domestic production cost-competitive. The plant would have stayed. The wages would have stayed. The middle class would have retained its earning power. The multiplier would have stayed intact. The demand base would have remained strong. A tariff does not create inefficiency. It corrects an incentive flaw that leads to national decline. It keeps the boardroom’s short-term decision from becoming the country’s long-term disaster.
So the lesson is simple. The boardroom’s choices were rational in the narrow sense, but in the broader sense they were destructive. They hurt the country. And eventually they hurt the corporations themselves. The invisible hand cannot function when the incentives push decision-makers to destroy the very demand their future profits depend on. That is not inevitability. It is a design flaw. And the consequences have already played out across an entire generation of Americans.
But the country is dealing with a completely different equation. When the plant closes, two thousand workers fall from sixty-thousand-dollar manufacturing jobs to forty-thousand-dollar service jobs. Multiply the twenty-thousand-dollar gap by two thousand workers and forty million dollars evaporates from household income. Then apply a simple multiplier. A 1.3 multiplier means another six hundred jobs indirectly tied to the plant take the same hit. Multiply twenty thousand by six hundred and that is another twelve million dollars gone. The national income loss now stands at fifty-two million dollars every single year. And the consumer does not get much in return. That one hundred twenty dollars of corporate savings does not flow through as a one hundred twenty-dollar price cut. Maybe half eventually shows up in the price. Most families will save maybe sixty dollars the one time they buy the appliance, which for a refrigerator is once every decade. Spread across all households the yearly benefit is only a few dollars. That is the entire consumer gain. A handful of dollars per year. In exchange the country permanently loses fifty-two million dollars of wages every year. In this one micro example the boardroom makes a short-term gain while the nation absorbs a long-term loss.
Now scale this up, because what I just described is exactly what has actually happened in the United States for the past quarter century. The boardroom made the offshoring decision again and again. Not one plant. Not ten plants. Thousands of plants. Millions of jobs. Every time the pattern repeated. A manufacturing job became a service job. The wage dropped from something like sixty to something like forty. The multiplier kicked in and wiped out the surrounding jobs. Household incomes sagged. Entire regions fell. Real wages flattened. Purchasing power sank. The middle class stopped growing. Younger generations fell behind their parents. Affordability collapsed in autos, housing, appliances, college, and almost every major expense. The middle of the country was squeezed down to the point where it could not fuel the very consumer economy that American corporations depended on. This is not theory. It is the lived history of the United States from the late 1990s until today. This is the macro version of that refrigerator plant playing out over and over until it became the defining economic trend of the era.
And here is the part that rarely gets said out loud. The boardroom did not just act against the nation’s interest. It acted against its own long-term interest as well. By pushing millions of workers down the income ladder, corporate America shrank the very customer base it depends on. The bottom sixty to seventy percent of the population now struggles to buy a new car, struggles to buy a home, struggles to keep up with basic costs. New car demand collapses the moment you remove the top ten percent of earners. Appliance replacements are stretched out longer and longer. Housing demand is sagging as younger buyers cannot afford to enter the market. Corporate America optimized so aggressively for short-term margins that it slowly dismantled the source of long-term demand. They squeezed the consumer until the consumer could no longer buy. They won the quarter and lost the decade. They cut labor to save money and ended up starving their own market. The top ten percent still spends, so from the top the world looks fine. But beneath that thin layer the domestic market that once powered American growth has been hollowed out. That is not efficiency. That is not optimal allocation. That is a system undercutting the very engine that once made it strong.
And this brings us to the final point. People love to invoke the invisible hand. They say the market will allocate resources efficiently. But what exactly is efficient about a system where the incentives reward decisions that weaken national income, collapse long-term demand, and eventually reduce the firm’s own customer base. This is not the invisible hand. This is an incentive failure. The boardroom’s math diverged from the nation’s math, and without a corrective mechanism there was nothing to bring those interests back into alignment. A tariff at the beginning of this process would have done exactly that. A tariff would have erased the one hundred twenty-dollar savings and made domestic production cost-competitive. The plant would have stayed. The wages would have stayed. The middle class would have retained its earning power. The multiplier would have stayed intact. The demand base would have remained strong. A tariff does not create inefficiency. It corrects an incentive flaw that leads to national decline. It keeps the boardroom’s short-term decision from becoming the country’s long-term disaster.
So the lesson is simple. The boardroom’s choices were rational in the narrow sense, but in the broader sense they were destructive. They hurt the country. And eventually they hurt the corporations themselves. The invisible hand cannot function when the incentives push decision-makers to destroy the very demand their future profits depend on. That is not inevitability. It is a design flaw. And the consequences have already played out across an entire generation of Americans.
Posted on 11/19/25 at 12:26 am to RiverCityTider
Same thing when billionaires flood the country w/illegal alien labor
This is not new. Ancient Roman elites destroyed the empire's cohesion by flooding the city w/slaves
This is not new. Ancient Roman elites destroyed the empire's cohesion by flooding the city w/slaves
Posted on 11/19/25 at 12:31 am to RiverCityTider
I don’t totally disagree.
The problem is the side that believes that also believes and votes for people that think men can be women, and that illegal aliens should be given amnesty because “nobody is illegal on stolen land”, and that it’s impossible to be racist against white people.
So I choose to side with the board room and upper class that votes for the opposite of the other things I just listed.
If the democrats would ever get rid of their crazy far left faction and actually got back to fighting for the working man, then they would almost never lose.
Also, when the democrats say “billionaires shouldn’t exist”, it wouldn’t stop there. It would eventually get down to millionaires then anyone making 6 figures and so on and so forth.
The problem is the side that believes that also believes and votes for people that think men can be women, and that illegal aliens should be given amnesty because “nobody is illegal on stolen land”, and that it’s impossible to be racist against white people.
So I choose to side with the board room and upper class that votes for the opposite of the other things I just listed.
If the democrats would ever get rid of their crazy far left faction and actually got back to fighting for the working man, then they would almost never lose.
Also, when the democrats say “billionaires shouldn’t exist”, it wouldn’t stop there. It would eventually get down to millionaires then anyone making 6 figures and so on and so forth.
This post was edited on 11/19/25 at 12:33 am
Posted on 11/19/25 at 12:36 am to RiverCityTider
Good post, I would add that the CEO has a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders. If he doesn't act in their best financial interests, they can bring legal action against him. It's not so much a boardroom decision, as much as a financial imperative.
A corporation doesn't exist to produce goods and services, nor to provide jobs, it simply, and legally, exists solely to increase value for its shareholders - regardless of social, cultural, or national interests.
A corporation doesn't exist to produce goods and services, nor to provide jobs, it simply, and legally, exists solely to increase value for its shareholders - regardless of social, cultural, or national interests.
Posted on 11/19/25 at 12:38 am to Harry Boutte
But the long term effect...
Posted on 11/19/25 at 12:46 am to Henry Jones Jr
quote:
The problem is the side that believes that also believes and votes for people that think men can be women, and that illegal aliens should be given amnesty because “nobody is illegal on stolen land”, and that it’s impossible to be racist against white people.
No sir. Most of the top ten % are voting Democrat. Democrats have joined with the elite sgainst the people.
MAGA populists understand this. Ths populist wing of the GOP understands this. The problem is there are interlopers who once controlled the GOP and gave us the Bushes and McCain and Romney. And they have yet to understand that they are not welcome anymore and that "traditional conservatives" have controlled government and caused this mess.
Posted on 11/19/25 at 1:31 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
But the long term effect...
You're right about the long-term effects. My point is that it is a central part of the corporate structure, it's not just boardroom decisions. CEOs have limited options.
Posted on 11/19/25 at 2:46 am to Harry Boutte
quote:
long-term
I work for a company that went in business over 200 years ago (no shite, 219 years & verifiable).
They aren't afflicted with the disease of expecting double digit returns every year and making asinine, myopic decisions based on quarterly stock performance.
That's long term. American CEOs, institutional investors, fund managers and your average 401K account holders have no fricking idea what long term actually means.
Posted on 11/19/25 at 2:48 am to reverendotis
Disagree. They know exactly what all those things mean, they just don't want to do those things.
Posted on 11/19/25 at 2:51 am to RiverCityTider
The problem is that I don't know where the numbers from that article came from, but they don't seem to correspond with any reality I can find. For example:
When I search for the average salary for a factory worker in the United States, the number that keeps coming up again and again is $16.88 an hour, or roughly $34,000 a year.
Here's a link to the Economic Research Institute with a slightly higher estimate at an even $17 an hour: LINK
I can find a few sources that will put the average in the low to mid $40,000 range (which means they are including management in the figures and not just the workers on the floor). I can't find any source that claims that these manufacturing jobs are $60,000 a year jobs.
Everything I find puts them in the range of entry level jobs. My nephew makes $17 an hour working in the produce department part time at Publix. He's a junior in high school. That's the level of jobs we're talking about by every source I can find.
So it makes me very skeptical about any of the other numbers listed in the article. The same sources that say that manufacturing jobs here pay around $17 an hour also say that comparable jobs in China pay about $6 an hour and in Mexico they pay about $4 an hour (and no, those are not "slave wages" in those countries. Those workers making that amount of money there live better than ours here making $17 an hour).
So I can't imagine that this is true:
I can't see any way that if just the labor there is 1/3 to 1/4 what it is here (never mind lower rent, lack of regulations, etc.) there can only be $120 difference between making the refrigerator here vs there. Yeah, you have to ship it back here to sell it, but still.
Here's a video by a guy who sells various different products. When the tariffs went into effect he started trying to source manufacturing in the US. Manufacturing in China and shipping to America for the product he picked as an example was $10.90. In America it was $19.74.
That seems like a much more accurate comparison to me based on the labor cost differences.
Which means that the article vastly underestimates the benefit to consumers and vastly over estimates the benefit to factory workers here. It also seems to vastly over estimate the number of manufacturing jobs "lost" to overseas producers. Yes, it's millions of jobs...about 6.7 million from its peak in 1979.
However, that's in the context of 170 million people being employed in the U.S. The article strongly implies (by including that Pew Chart) that losing manufacturing jobs is the reason wages have stagnated, etc., for the entire country when we're only talking about 4% of the jobs in the country. There's no way.
In short—no offense—but that article smells like complete bullshite propaganda to me.
I'm open to being proven wrong if you can post some sources that back up those numbers, but as it stands right now I can't find any credible source that comes anywhere close.
quote:
When the plant closes, two thousand workers fall from sixty-thousand-dollar manufacturing jobs to forty-thousand-dollar service jobs.
When I search for the average salary for a factory worker in the United States, the number that keeps coming up again and again is $16.88 an hour, or roughly $34,000 a year.
Here's a link to the Economic Research Institute with a slightly higher estimate at an even $17 an hour: LINK
I can find a few sources that will put the average in the low to mid $40,000 range (which means they are including management in the figures and not just the workers on the floor). I can't find any source that claims that these manufacturing jobs are $60,000 a year jobs.
Everything I find puts them in the range of entry level jobs. My nephew makes $17 an hour working in the produce department part time at Publix. He's a junior in high school. That's the level of jobs we're talking about by every source I can find.
So it makes me very skeptical about any of the other numbers listed in the article. The same sources that say that manufacturing jobs here pay around $17 an hour also say that comparable jobs in China pay about $6 an hour and in Mexico they pay about $4 an hour (and no, those are not "slave wages" in those countries. Those workers making that amount of money there live better than ours here making $17 an hour).
So I can't imagine that this is true:
quote:
It costs about five hundred eighty dollars to make a refrigerator in the United States. It costs about four hundred sixty dollars to make the same refrigerator overseas.
I can't see any way that if just the labor there is 1/3 to 1/4 what it is here (never mind lower rent, lack of regulations, etc.) there can only be $120 difference between making the refrigerator here vs there. Yeah, you have to ship it back here to sell it, but still.
Here's a video by a guy who sells various different products. When the tariffs went into effect he started trying to source manufacturing in the US. Manufacturing in China and shipping to America for the product he picked as an example was $10.90. In America it was $19.74.
That seems like a much more accurate comparison to me based on the labor cost differences.
Which means that the article vastly underestimates the benefit to consumers and vastly over estimates the benefit to factory workers here. It also seems to vastly over estimate the number of manufacturing jobs "lost" to overseas producers. Yes, it's millions of jobs...about 6.7 million from its peak in 1979.
However, that's in the context of 170 million people being employed in the U.S. The article strongly implies (by including that Pew Chart) that losing manufacturing jobs is the reason wages have stagnated, etc., for the entire country when we're only talking about 4% of the jobs in the country. There's no way.
In short—no offense—but that article smells like complete bullshite propaganda to me.
I'm open to being proven wrong if you can post some sources that back up those numbers, but as it stands right now I can't find any credible source that comes anywhere close.
This post was edited on 11/19/25 at 2:55 am
Posted on 11/19/25 at 3:50 am to RiverCityTider
Our economic system is a pyramid scheme more or less. To make it work we need the base to keep getting larger... the base of course is consumers.
Domestic population growth is woefully inadequate. This is the reason why the U.S. has allowed so many people to immigrate to this country over the last 25 years.
Europe is in the same boat. That was the driver for the EU, open borders, and mass immigration. Of course with mass immigration comes many other serious issues that were not considered or planned for. Europe has some major issues. The France and Britain of old are are basically lost. Another 5-6 countries are not far behind.
Domestic population growth is woefully inadequate. This is the reason why the U.S. has allowed so many people to immigrate to this country over the last 25 years.
Europe is in the same boat. That was the driver for the EU, open borders, and mass immigration. Of course with mass immigration comes many other serious issues that were not considered or planned for. Europe has some major issues. The France and Britain of old are are basically lost. Another 5-6 countries are not far behind.
Posted on 11/19/25 at 4:49 am to RiverCityTider
Politicians opened the door for the move. I bet they were paid handsomely. The votes for NAFTA and most favored nation status for Red China ran about 95% pro for Republicans and about 33% pro for Democrats.
The SE textile industry collapsed along with the ancillary businesses. That $17 / hr woman in the mill made too much.
Bush Sr. said the people who lose their jobs will be trained for the jobs of the future. I don't know what those jobs were or even what the training was, but you can bet the taxpayers paid for it .
The SE textile industry collapsed along with the ancillary businesses. That $17 / hr woman in the mill made too much.
Bush Sr. said the people who lose their jobs will be trained for the jobs of the future. I don't know what those jobs were or even what the training was, but you can bet the taxpayers paid for it .
Posted on 11/19/25 at 5:27 am to RiverCityTider
Icahn summed up problems with corporate boards years ago.
quote:It was true then, and it's true now.
Carl Icahn Once Said, 'The Boards In This Country Are Not Doing The Job, And That's Why You Have The Trouble On Wall Street'
In 2009, Carl Icahn, a famous billionaire investor, strongly criticized corporate boards of directors and their lack of oversight of CEOs, blaming them for many of Wall Street’s financial troubles.
“The trouble with the country is that we don’t have accountability. The boards in this country are not doing the job, and that’s why you have the trouble on Wall Street,” said Icahn in an interview with ABC News.
He stressed how these boards ignored obvious warnings about risky financial practices, namely those involving mortgage-backed securities, which contributed to the financial crisis. Despite the damage these risky moves caused, top CEOs walked away with huge bonuses while the real losers were the shareholders. Icahn called this situation “unfair and wrong.”
He also slammed the practice of giving huge salaries to CEOs who aren't doing a good job, calling it a “total disgrace” and criticizing corporate boards that often behave like a “fraternity,” where everyone is too friendly and no one asks the tough questions.
According to him, that’s why less capable people lead companies: These CEOs ensure no one smarter than them gets promoted. He said, “[The CEO] would never have anyone underneath him as his assistant that’s brighter than he is because that might constitute a threat. So, therefore, with many exceptions, we have CEOs becoming dumber and dumber and dumber.”
LINK
Posted on 11/19/25 at 6:13 am to reverendotis
quote:
I work for a company that went in business over 200 years ago (no shite, 219 years & verifiable).
They aren't afflicted with the disease of expecting double digit returns every year and making asinine, myopic decisions based on quarterly stock performance.
That's long term. American CEOs, institutional investors, fund managers and your average 401K account holders have no fricking idea what long term actually means.
Amen.
Posted on 11/19/25 at 6:21 am to wackatimesthree
You’re wrong libtard
The boomers parents blew up every country in the world so that their kids could have a good factory job where you could buy a house and two cars and your woman didn’t have to work and you got a pension but boomers voted it all away
The boomers parents blew up every country in the world so that their kids could have a good factory job where you could buy a house and two cars and your woman didn’t have to work and you got a pension but boomers voted it all away
Posted on 11/19/25 at 6:28 am to RiverCityTider
Globalism kills the middle class. You have to merge capitalism with nationalism for it to survive. All other roads lead to disaster.
Posted on 11/19/25 at 6:31 am to SlayTime
quote:
You have to merge capitalism with nationalism for it to survive.
So, a form of socialism?
Because that's what OP is preaching. He's even using leftist language against muh corporations to get there.
That's why populism is almost always linked to left-sided economics.
Posted on 11/19/25 at 7:09 am to el Gaucho
quote:
You’re wrong libtard
Now that's what I call hard evidence.
Posted on 11/19/25 at 7:13 am to Harry Boutte
quote:As of now, you are correct. But this is also the piece of the equation that needs to change.
it simply, and legally, exists solely to increase value for its shareholders - regardless of social, cultural, or national interests
The problem is in this objective being the ONLY priority of the firm vs making it the PRIMARY priority of the firm. Right now it is the only priority; we need to find a way to switch it to the primary priority.
Consider this parallel. This most important job of a parent is to keep their child alive. That is the PRIMARY responsibility. But if the parent over-interprets that mandate, and instead treats it as the ONLY responsibility, well that’s how you wind up in bubble boy territory. And you end up raising a weird fricking kid. Sometimes a parent has to let their child be exposed to risk so that the child can grow into a fully functional, well adjusted adult. Even if that means risking injury in the short term.
Same concept for corporations. When you transform your PRIMARY responsibility into your ONLY responsibility, you end up building a weird fricking firm. And one that is not well adjusted to integrate into broader society.
Posted on 11/19/25 at 7:18 am to el Gaucho
quote:
The boomers parents blew up every country in the world so that their kids could have a good factory job where you could buy a house and two cars and your woman didn’t have to work and you got a pension but boomers voted it all away
I have come to associate "boomer" as a pejorative as commensurate with low IQ, and this post didn't disappoint.
What you just typed above is a gigantic myth that has been circulated by the same propaganda sources responsible for the OP's reposted article.
Again, the peak year for manufacturing jobs in America was 1979. See the below for average wages for manufacturing employees.
quote:
In 1979, the average hourly wage for production and nonsupervisory employees was around $6.51. This translates to an average annual salary of approximately $13,500 (assuming a 40-hour work week for 52 weeks).
Average hourly wage: Approximately \(\$6.51\) in October 1979, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis.
Estimated annual salary: Roughly \(\$13,500\) (\(6.51\text{\ per\ hour}\times 40\text{\ hours\ per\ week}\times 52\text{\ weeks\ per\ year}\)).
Inflation-adjusted perspective: The real value of this wage was higher than today's average earnings. For example, \(\$6.51\) in 1979 is equivalent to about \(\$21.20\) in 2015 dollars.
Minimum wage: The federal minimum wage for most workers was \(\$2.90\) per hour, effective January 1, 1979
EDIT: Inflation adjusting between 2015 and 2025, the salary does come out to be $60,000 a year.
So yeah, at the peak of manufacturing in America that did happen. Maybe that's where the original article got it's numbers.
But it's still a myth today. Those jobs don't pay what they used to. Probably due to improvements in production methods/automation, etc.
And you are the libtard, you idiot. At least on this issue. Tariffs are a leftist convention.
This post was edited on 11/19/25 at 7:22 am
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