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re: tAthletic Early Power Rankings: Saints come in at #28
Posted on 2/15/24 at 9:32 am to DVA Tailgater
Posted on 2/15/24 at 9:32 am to DVA Tailgater
quote:
28? Nowhere to go but up!
This is not technically true.
0
Posted on 2/16/24 at 1:41 am to Geauxldilocks
quote:
Aging Cam, AK, and DD, uncertainty on Latt & Ram coupled with the atrocious drafting since 2017 and it’s not hard to project the Saints in the bottom 20s.
The negative developments can be balanced by continued development of young players who began to emerge this past season. Movement of teams up and down is fluid every season. There are 6 to 8 top level teams every year and the same number at the bottom. The middle 20 teams are very close and factors like schedule, injuries, development of young players and regression of veterans can impact the ultimate finish. The young Saints receivers are on the verge of being one of the elite groups and the young defensive backs will continue to emerge. If they can fix the lines on both sides of the ball through free agency and possibly add Brock Bowers to the tight end room this team can be in the upper half of the league. The Carr of the second half of the season needs to pick up where he left and continue to mesh with the team.
Posted on 2/16/24 at 6:55 am to tigersbb
quote:
The negative developments can be balanced by continued development of young players who began to emerge this past season
Which young guys emerged last year at levels/positions to replace Latt/Ram/Cam?
Baun? He's a FA and we're not likely to re-sign him.
Everyone is banging the drum to pick an impact edge or OT at 14, so clearly there are issues.
quote:
The young Saints receivers are on the verge of being one of the elite groups
Our WRs don't have a WR1 to do that. Olave did not take a step forward in year 2 and may have regressed. You think Perry can emerge as a WR1 next year? I do like Shaheed a lot, but his absolute ceiling seems like a WR2.
quote:
If they can fix the lines on both sides of the ball through free agency
Finding starters in FA for playoff-quality teams in FA is easy, especially when you don't have cap to spend
We may have problems trying to re-sign Peat
Posted on 2/16/24 at 8:11 am to Chad504boy
quote:
That’s an embarrassing take by tAthletic. No wonder why they struggling to stay in business.
Is it tho? Saints have drafted like shite the last few years. Only notable standout player was Olave and for what we gave up to get him definitely has not been worth it. His free agent signings haven’t been much better. Loomis is delusional to reality and his ego is so big, it will just bring the entire organization down soon.
This post was edited on 2/16/24 at 11:34 am
Posted on 2/16/24 at 8:36 am to Townedrunkard
quote:
for what we gave up to get him
We still haven't fully paid off that debt. It's crazy what we spent for him. We really need our own 2nd rounder this year b/c we are in rebuilding mode and have to make up for the mediocre-bad drafts.
This is actually a really big under the radar issue with our cap/roster building strategy. We can't do what the Rams did the past couple years and rebuilding by drafting in volume, because we don't have the roster spots. We are limited in creating roster spots because we have so much dead money hanging over guys who should be cut, that we sacrifice the very young/cheap talent we need to offset the cap strategy.
The Rams basically blew it up and made the playoffs in 1 year (while keeping 3/4 of their most important and expensive players). This rebuild was done without the #6 pick in the 2023 draft, as well
We are setting up the most insane tear down in NFL history, and have missed the playoffs in every year we've been doing it. Insanity.
Posted on 2/16/24 at 9:37 am to Townedrunkard
quote:
Saints have drafted like shite the last few years.
This is pretty much the truth and why we have to rely heavily on veteran players.
The Chiefs get a ton of praise for Mahomes, and rightfully so, but they have straight up killed the draft for the past several years. Tons of impact players drafted and making up the core of their team.
Posted on 2/16/24 at 9:42 am to LSUZombie
Not only that, but Loomis's stupid strategy of always moving up and never valuing quantity when you are in a drastic cap situation is coming home to roost.
Its asinine. If you are in cap hell, you need a lot of cheaper players. You need MORE rookies (AND you need to draft well), not less.
Its asinine. If you are in cap hell, you need a lot of cheaper players. You need MORE rookies (AND you need to draft well), not less.
Posted on 2/16/24 at 11:17 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
only that, but Loomis's stupid strategy of always moving up and never valuing quantity when you are in a drastic cap situation is coming home to roost.
Its asinine. If you are in cap hell, you need a lot of cheaper players. You need MORE rookies (AND you need to draft well), not less.
And Loomis will give his same answer like he does every draft. "You have to have some one that wants to trade back"
Funny how he never has a problem finding someone to take his picks to move up.
Smart gms trade back if the compensation is right. Just look at Howie Roseman.
I don't believe Loomis has ever traded back in all his time here.
Posted on 2/16/24 at 11:50 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
*ETA: 2 NFC South teams ranked below us, showing just how terrible our division is
Yet we still can’t win it since Brees left even with the easiest schedule in Saints history and just above .500 being the necessary mark. Impressive how awful Allen is as a HC.
Posted on 2/16/24 at 11:59 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Not only that, but Loomis's stupid strategy of always moving up and never valuing quantity when you are in a drastic cap situation is coming home to roost.
We have to do this because we can't cut so many veterans due to can kicking.
We need to cut Maye and Mathieu and likely will keep both and extend one for cap purposes
Posted on 2/16/24 at 1:28 pm to VA LSU fan
quote:
Saints leadership is too stupid to be as good as KC
I mean. They lucked into a generational QB at a time when the old guard of generational QBs were getting phased out and retiring. It was a perfect storm for them to turn into a juggernaut. Pairing him with one of the better offensive minded coaches in the league certainly helped too.
But I wouldn’t say their FO is on the same tier as the Eagles or Niners. But outside of Chris Jones and their secondary, and obviously Mahomes, I wouldn’t really say they have even a top 5 roster in the NFL. Mahomes, Chris Jones and their secondary went God mode in the playoffs and carried them.
Posted on 2/16/24 at 1:32 pm to Geauxldilocks
quote:
Aging Cam, AK, and DD, uncertainty on Latt & Ram coupled with the atrocious drafting since 2017 and it’s not hard to project the Saints in the bottom 20s. Like this year, with the NFC South weakness the Saints record for 2024 will likely have the Saints looking better than they really are. We’re in the 3rd inning of a lost decade due to horrific ownership and management.
I wouldn’t exactly call it a lost decade. But I do think we’re going to see a shakeup of how things are done after this year if we miss the playoffs again, which could result in some 5-6 win seasons.
The lack of hitting on draft picks is of more of a concern to me than the aging vets. You can manage the Cap the way the Saints do IF you hit on the draft picks. But they haven’t. They’ve missed a lot
Posted on 2/16/24 at 7:06 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
This is actually a really big under the radar issue with our cap/roster building strategy.
We can't do what the Rams did the past couple years and rebuilding by drafting in volume, because we don't have the roster spots.
We are limited in creating roster spots because we have so much dead money hanging over guys who should be cut, that we sacrifice the very young/cheap talent we need to offset the cap strategy. The Rams basically blew it up and made the playoffs in 1 year (while keeping 3/4 of their most important and expensive players). This rebuild was done without the #6 pick in the 2023 draft, as well
The same Rams who had $74million in deadcap money in 2023, second highest in the NFL?
But theyre not can kicking, just the Saints to you right?
quote:
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: $75.32MM
Los Angeles Rams: $74.23MM
Green Bay Packers: $57.14MM
Philadelphia Eagles: $54.73MM
Carolina Panthers: $51.54MM
Arizona Cardinals: $36.96MM
Tennessee Titans: $36.56MM
Minnesota Vikings: $35.54MM
Houston Texans: $31.72MM
Las Vegas Raiders: $29.95MM
Indianapolis Colts: $24.89MM
New Orleans Saints: $24.58MM
Chicago Bears: $23.52MM
Washington Commanders: $23.01MM
New York Giants: $22.74MM
New England Patriots: $21.82MM
Atlanta Falcons: $18.78MM
Detroit Lions: $18.69MM
Seattle Seahawks: $17.91MM
San Francisco 49ers: $17.16MM
Cleveland Browns: $16MM
Dallas Cowboys: $14.64MM
Pittsburgh Steelers: $13.26MM
Baltimore Ravens: $10.78MM
Denver Broncos: $9.72MM
Miami Dolphins: $8.43MM
New York Jets: $7.95MM
Kansas City Chiefs: $7.65MM
Buffalo Bills: $5.23MM
Jacksonville Jaguars: $4.7MM
Los Angeles Chargers: $2.19MM
Cincinnati Bengals: $593K
LINK
Youre a fraud and completely clueless. Shut the frick up pussy. Wow. Rams had $74million in deadcap for 2023 compared to Saints at $24million, but you think they got the financial freedom and a well played cap.
LINK /
Saints have 5 picks and will receive 3 compensatory picks.
8 total. 6 cheap and third round or lower. We will absolutely be looking for cheap help through the draft.
PS saying NFL teams “need” to hit on the draft is the dumbest shite ever. OF COURSE NFL teams want to hit in the draft. Every team is trying to cash in on cheap talent from the draft and ride them.
This post was edited on 2/16/24 at 7:19 pm
Posted on 2/17/24 at 7:48 am to WicKed WayZ
quote:
But outside of Chris Jones and their secondary, and obviously Mahomes, I wouldn’t really say they have even a top 5 roster in the NFL. Mahomes, Chris Jones and their secondary went God mode in the playoffs and carried them.
They've also drafted elite LBs, OL, and a solid WR/RB
So, other than drafting the QB, and OL, and LBs, and Secondary, and RB, they've been pretty mediocre in the draft
Posted on 2/17/24 at 7:55 am to paulbeasy
quote:
The same Rams who had $74million in deadcap money in 2023,
Yes. As I said, "The Rams basically blew it up and made the playoffs in 1 year"
They're out of cap hell AND made the playoffs (in a tough division). We're in cap hell and failed to make the playoffs (in the easiest division).
quote:
But theyre not can kicking, just the Saints to you right?
They were, and then they took their medicine in ONE year. Now they're a playoff team with a stacked young roster.
We can't make the playoffs and are creating an even worse can kicking scenario.
You also clearly lack the intelligence to read words correctly.
The full clause: "We are limited in creating roster spots because we have so much dead money hanging over guys who should be cut, "
I even gave examples of guys who are taking up those roster spots.
quote:
Rams had $74million in deadcap for 2023 compared to Saints at $24million, but you think they got the financial freedom and a well played cap.
How are they looking in 2024 and 2025? Their palate is largely cleansed, due to taking their medicine after realizing their title window was closed.
quote:
PS saying NFL teams “need” to hit on the draft is the dumbest shite ever. OF COURSE NFL teams want to hit in the draft. Every team is trying to cash in on cheap talent from the draft and ride them.
What you fail to understand is that if we did have a monster draft, we don't have the roster spots for 6+ young players.
The Rams made the playoffs on the back of their 14 draft picks in 2023.
Posted on 2/17/24 at 8:52 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The full clause: "We are limited in creating roster spots because we have so much dead money hanging over guys who should be cut, "
Like Kupp? Literally got paid a shite ton for MT13 like production for two straight years - missed games etc.
quote:
They're out of cap hell
Wrong in 2023 rams were in the MIDDLE of cap hell - or your own deluded version of “cap hell.”
And yes they were fine. Which is why I keep calling you a pussy and telling you to shut the frick up. Dead cap year by year is not the defining factor re the best teams/playoff teams etc.
quote:
They were, and then they took their medicine in ONE year. Now they're a playoff team with a stacked young roster.
So THEIR can kicking was ultra effective because they went 10-7, but the Saints at 9-8 had inneffective can kicking? Sure pussy try again.
quote:
What you fail to understand is that if we did have a monster draft, we don't have the roster spots for 6+ young players.
You think we dont have space to sign 6 picks, third round or fewer?
How do you think the rams signed their 14 picks with 74 million in dead cap you fricking moron? You are dumb as frick bruh, and you think you know shite but you dont.
quote:
Their palate is largely cleansed, due to taking their medicine after realizing their title window was closed.
Dude, Rams have had a shitty dead cap for years now, their strategy is SIMILAR to the saints with their cap. They literally had 49 million in dead cap in 2021. The year they won the SB.
LINK /
quote:
How are they looking in 2024 and 2025?
Remains to be seen what their cap will be in the future pussy just like the Saints. Depends on what they do with several contracts like Cooper Kupp so we will see what their dead cap hit will be. You cant predict the future can you pussy?
quote:
They're out of cap hell AND made the playoffs (in a tough division). We're in cap hell and failed to make the playoffs (in the easiest division).
What you fail to realize is that you have this idea that you understand thr NFL cap and what it means. You particularly beleive that a large dead cap is meaningful - as a definition of whether a team will or wont be a good team.
What you dont get is that the salary cap is ongoing and ever changing, as are contract values etc. As posted above the top 4 teams with the highest deadcaps were in the playoffs in 2023, the Bucs, Rams, Packers, and Eagles.
quote:
(1) Saints deadcap was decent in 2023.
(2) how much deadcap you have does not necessarily mean your team sucks.
quote:
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: $75.32MM Los Angeles Rams: $74.23MM
Green Bay Packers: $57.14MM Philadelphia Eagles: $54.73MM Carolina Panthers: $51.54MM Arizona Cardinals: $36.96MM Tennessee Titans: $36.56MM Minnesota Vikings: $35.54MM Houston Texans: $31.72MM Las Vegas Raiders: $29.95MM Indianapolis Colts: $24.89MM New Orleans Saints: $24.58MM Chicago Bears: $23.52MM Washington Commanders: $23.01MM New York Giants: $22.74MM New England Patriots: $21.82MM Atlanta Falcons: $18.78MM Detroit Lions: $18.69MM Seattle Seahawks: $17.91MM San Francisco 49ers: $17.16MM Cleveland Browns: $16MM Dallas Cowboys: $14.64MM Pittsburgh Steelers: $13.26MM Baltimore Ravens: $10.78MM Denver Broncos: $9.72MM Miami Dolphins: $8.43MM New York Jets: $7.95MM Kansas City Chiefs: $7.65MM Buffalo Bills: $5.23MM Jacksonville Jaguars: $4.7MM Los Angeles Chargers: $2.19MM Cincinnati Bengals: $593K
You literally prove my point while not even knowing what the point is. Classic.
By the way were the Bucs selling out for a Super Bowl in 2023? The packers? NO - they just had a bad cap year and theyre going to try to work it down.
quote:
SFP makes a post about NFL power rankings. It only addresses teams’ salary cap. Seems on par.
Par for the course. Shut the frick up pussy. Youre fricking clown.
This post was edited on 2/17/24 at 9:02 am
Posted on 2/17/24 at 9:37 am to paulbeasy
quote:
Like Kupp?
No, like Maye, Cam, and Mathieu
quote:
Wrong in 2023 rams were in the MIDDLE of cap hell - or your own deluded version of “cap hell.”
I said "they're out of", i.e., today.
They're smack dab in the middle of the NFL this offseason in terms of cap space (with no dead cap looming while retaining their expensive QB, WR, and DT). We are last, with an incomprehensible amount of dead cap looming.
quote:
And yes they were fine. Which is why I keep calling you a pussy and telling you to shut the frick up.
THEY made the playoffs last year in a difficult division.
WE did not in one of the easiest divisions in NFL history.
quote:
So THEIR can kicking was ultra effective because they went 10-7, but the Saints at 9-8 had inneffective can kicking?
The can stopped being kicked last year. We are still kicking can.
They can make the playoffs while in a difficult division and rebuilding.
We failed to make the playoffs while in an incredibly easy division and pushing rebuilding off.
Their original can kicking also led to a title and another SB appearance. Our can kicking led to neither (and today we are so strapped we can't even make the playoffs).
quote:
How do you think the rams signed their 14 picks with 74 million in dead cap you fricking moron?
They had lots of roster spaces not dedicated to dead weight like we do.
quote:
Dude, Rams have had a shitty dead cap for years now,
And made 2 Super Bowls and won a title.
Then they took their medicine and made the playoffs.
We made no Super Bowls, won no Super Bowls, and can't even make the playoffs.
quote:
Depends on what they do with several contracts like Cooper Kupp
They're way under the cap with his contract.
quote:
By the way were the Bucs selling out for a Super Bowl in 2023?
No they were rebuilding after selling out for their Super Bowl (which they got).
Where is our similar Super Bowl in this can-kicking era?
We haven't even begun to rebuild yet. They did in one offseason (like Los Angeles) and made the playoffs (like Los Angeles).
The Saints have not even begun to take our medicine and we can't make the playoffs. What does that say about how bad our roster construction is, compared to 2 rebuilding teams?
Posted on 2/17/24 at 11:46 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
No, like Maye, Cam, and Mathieu
Kupp has a monster contract and isnt productive - his contract is worse than the guys listed above clown.
quote:
I said "they're out of", i.e., today. They're smack dab in the middle of the NFL this offseason in terms of cap space (with no dead cap looming while retaining their expensive QB, WR, and DT).
quote:
The can stopped being kicked last year. We are still kicking can. They can make the playoffs while in a difficult division and rebuilding. We failed to make the playoffs while in an incredibly easy division and pushing rebuilding off.
Their original can kicking also led to a title and another SB appearance. Our can kicking led to neither (and today we are so strapped we can't even make the playoffs).
Rams cap management is in par with the Saints. They have been one of the top 5 teams in dead cap for years.
They have a SuperBowl appearance robbed from the Saints, and won in in a high dead cap year 2021.
They have been in the same boat as the Saints with better luck/cheating refs.
And, like I said already, how deadcap a team has is NOT a defining factor in whether they are or arent a good team.
quote:
quote: By the way were the Bucs selling out for a Super Bowl in 2023? No they were rebuilding after selling out for their Super Bowl (which they got). Where is our similar Super Bowl in this can-kicking era?
So you forgot that the Saints were rolling and lost to Tom Brady/Bucs that year? The Saints were in the mix fighting for the SB that year and beat the Bucs twice in the regular season.
Funny how you dont mention how we were 13-3 that season.
Also the Bucs last year managed a high dead cap and had success but only marginally better than the Saints who were also 9-8 and whupped their asses before the playoffs started. Saints clearly could have made noise in the playoffs.
quote:
No they were rebuilding after selling out for their Super Bowl (which they got). Where is our similar Super Bowl in this can-kicking era?
And what about these teams nut bag?
quote:
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: $75.32MM Los Angeles Rams: $74.23MM
Green Bay Packers: $57.14MM Philadelphia Eagles: $54.73MM Carolina Panthers: $51.54MM
Arizona Cardinals: $36.96MM Tennessee Titans: $36.56MM Minnesota Vikings: $35.54MM Houston Texans: $31.72MM
The Bucs, Packers, Panthers, Cardinals, Titans, Texans, Vikings were not “selling out” for a championship in 2023 were they. No.
They just had a high dead cap year.
You think the reasons a team has a high dead cap are (a) they sold out for a championship or (b) theyre rebuilding.
Alittle more to it than that pussy.
PS every fricking team is “selling out” to win a ship in whatever way they can. Even in a rebuild year there is a plan.
Which brings me back to my original point.
The salary cap is ongoing and ever changing, as are contract values etc. As posted above the top 4 teams with the highest deadcaps were in the playoffs in 2023, the Bucs, Rams, Packers, and Eagles.
The Bucs and Packers (and Panthers, Cardinals, Titans, Texans, Vikings) in particular were not selling out for a championship. And theyre not necessarily rebuilding either.
Again, you are clueless. (1) you beleive that a large dead cap is meaningful - as a definition of whether a team will or wont be a good team. Its not. (2) Now your spin is that a team with a high deadcap is better than the Saints high deadcap because (a) they sold out for a championship or (b) theyre rebuilding.
There are several factors that play into it. The metric for NFL success is not watching deadcap you fricking pussy. Which is why the following was posted:
quote:
SFP makes a post about NFL power rankings. It only addresses teams’ salary cap. Seems on par.
Par for the course. Shut the frick up pussy. Youre fricking clown.
This post was edited on 2/17/24 at 12:04 pm
Posted on 2/17/24 at 12:12 pm to paulbeasy
quote:
Kupp has a monster contract and isnt productive
Due to injuries more than age. He's potentially salvageable. Maye, Cam, and Mathieu are too old to salvage and much more expensive than their production merits.
Also, the Rams are below the cap now because they took their medicine.
quote:
Rams cap management is in par with the Saints.
They kicked can, in the past.
We kicked can in around the same timeframe, starting in the past.
They won a title, in the past.
We did not win a title during this can-kicking era.
They are rebuilding and have fixed their cap. Have we fixed our cap situation?
quote:
They have been one of the top 5 teams in dead cap for years.
In order to win a title. They did. Now they're rebuilding.
We failed to win a title and refuse to rebuild, while missing the playoffs.
quote:
So you forgot that the Saints were rolling and lost to Tom Brady/Bucs that year?
And then they won the South and made the playoffs in 2021. We did neither.
And then they won the South and made the playoffs in 2022. We did neither.
Our window was over after 2020. Tampa's window ended after 2022. Tampa ate shite for a year to fix their cap, and still made the playoffs while we kept can kicking.
quote:
Funny how you dont mention how we were 13-3 that season.
While I have said we should have considered realizing our window was closed in 2019, one more year was fine.
Everyone has been critical for the moves from 2022 onward, and especially in 2023, when it is completely clear our window shut years ago.
Why are you bringing up moves made so far in the past that aren't relevant? Everyone was fine with can kicking while we had a window. Same as LAR and TB. The difference is they realized when the window was closed and we have just made everything worse (while still being so mediocre we can't even make the playoffs).
quote:
You think the reasons a team has a high dead cap are (a) they sold out for a championship or (b) theyre rebuilding.
Or they have to cut a QB. Those are the vast majority of scenarios.
You also just have shitty teams and GMS.
quote:
(1) you beleive that a large dead cap is meaningful - as a definition of whether a team will or wont be a good team.
I'm not shocked you're that wrong and can't state my clear position with any accuracy
quote:
Now your spin is that a team with a high deadcap is better than the Saints high deadcap because (a) they sold out for a championship or (b) theyre rebuilding.
That's always been the position.
It's fine to kick can if you are in a title window or eat dead cap because the window closed and you had to rebuild.
We refuse to rebuild while being mediocre. How does that make ANY sense?
Posted on 2/17/24 at 12:38 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
This is actually a really big under the radar issue with our cap/roster building strategy. We can't do what the Rams did the past couple years and rebuilding by drafting in volume, because we don't have the roster spots
They haven’t had first round picks in years and many years no second round picks.,
Look at their draft this year, a guard who started every game, an edge player with 8 sacks as a rookie, a dt that was third in rookie of the year voting and a rookie wideout that broke nfl records.
They had a better draft this year with no high picks compared to what Loomis has had the last 6-7 years combined. It’s pretty pathetic.
This post was edited on 2/17/24 at 12:40 pm
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