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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 2/17/24 at 12:35 pm to SoFla Tideroller
Posted on 2/17/24 at 12:35 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
why America needs to spend
It’s what we do.
quote:
Why we spend our capital to do something they refuse
The enemy of my enemy and what not
quote:
participating in NATO
Why do you think we should leave.
Posted on 2/17/24 at 12:43 pm to No Colors
quote:
I've read some delusional shite from troll farm bots spewing the party line... but this.....this is in a league of its own.
Funny coming from the person that said Ukraine would be in Tokmak by Halloween '23.
Also love how there's been nearly zero mention of Avdiivka throughout this thread, meanwhile when a jet full of Ukrainian POW's is downed there's about 10 pages of jacking each other off.
Posted on 2/17/24 at 12:46 pm to ruffleforeskin
Russia has captured more land today than Ukraine's entire summer offensive.
Posted on 2/17/24 at 1:06 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why America needs to spend one single dime on a regional conflict that doesn't affect us one iota. Western Europe has the finances and resources to handle it themselves.
You mean other than the fact that America, UK and others promised to protect Ukraine's independence if they gave up their nukes? There was a lot of concern in the early 1990's that some of those nukes would find their way into terrorist hands for the right price.
Where were you in the early 1990's?
Budapest Memorandum
On December 5, 1994 the leaders of Ukraine, Russia, United Kingdom, and the United States signed a memorandum to provide Ukraine with security assurances in connection with its accession to the NPT as a non-nuclear weapon state. The four parties signed the memorandum, containing a preamble and six paragraphs. The memorandum reads as follows:[13]
The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,
Welcoming the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons as non-nuclear-weapon State,
Taking into account the commitment of Ukraine to eliminate all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of time,
Noting the changes in the world-wide security situation, including the end of the Cold War, which have brought about conditions for deep reductions in nuclear forces.
Confirm the following:
1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.
2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.
3. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.
4. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.
5. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm, in the case of Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a State in association or alliance with a nuclear-weapon State.
6. Ukraine, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America will consult in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning these commitments.
— Memorandum on Security Assurances in Connection with Ukraine’s Accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons[13]
Posted on 2/17/24 at 1:09 pm to SoFla Tideroller
What do you think will happen if, after being abandoned, Ukraine falls to Russian subjugation? I’m honestly asking. Do you think they will simply be content? What happens a few years down the line once they’ve recovered?
If they invade another country, is that also a regional conflict that doesn’t affect us one iota? What about after that?
If they invade another country, is that also a regional conflict that doesn’t affect us one iota? What about after that?
Posted on 2/17/24 at 1:14 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
the do-gooders on here go into paroxysms of grief or anger if you even suggest that we no longer have any business participating in NATO, either
Posted on 2/17/24 at 1:25 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
the do-gooders on here
I thought we were warmongers. Maybe we're do-good warmongers? Or maybe we're warmongering do-gooders.
This post was edited on 2/17/24 at 1:27 pm
Posted on 2/17/24 at 1:42 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
a regional conflict that doesn't affect us one iota.
Nothing that Russia does, then, would affect us. Why don't we just get rid of all of our nuclear weapons? Who cares that Russia has over 5000 nukes aimed at us? Russia is our friend, right? We have nothing to fear from Russian power. Hey, let's also let them continue to control Latin American countries such as Cuba and Venezuela -- it's not like the dictatorships in those countries are forcing millions of refugees across our border or anything.
No, the real problem is America. We've meddled too much in the world, and we need to learn our place and let more responsible countries such as Russia and China take the lead. In fact, who cares if China takes over Taiwan? Who cares if the Sino-Russian alliance controls the world? Our grandchildren can learn to speak Russian and Chinese with no problem.
Posted on 2/17/24 at 1:43 pm to cypher
They don’t need the U.S. to come together and purchase those shells. If they ration artillery officers to 4,000 shells a day that is enough ammo to last them until September. Ukraine can provide adequate defense on a 4,000 ration if they do like the Russians and did in deep with minefields everywhere. Shooting more than that would really take a beating on the barrels of the howitzers and will need constant maintenance and replacement of barrels. Russia doesn’t give a shite they will fire until the barrels explode. Start digging in especially around Kharkiv. They can’t lose that city just for troop morale. They need artillery, FPV drones and air defense and ammunition. Zelensky needs to stop the old soviet generals and look at young Captains, Majors and Lt. Colonels for their advice and how they have seen the war up close and personal. We can send another 100 Bradleys and M109s but they will always be at an equipment disadvantage. The first use of the GLSDB was a big success though, it really fricked that ammo dump up. They should be sent as many as they have. This lets you hit targets beyond HIMARS range and the Russians just can’t move things like ammo and fuel that far behind their lines and still be able to successfully supply their front line troops.
Posted on 2/17/24 at 2:18 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Who cares if the Sino-Russian alliance controls the world? Our grandchildren can learn to speak Russian and Chinese with no problem.
This post was edited on 2/17/24 at 3:11 pm
Posted on 2/17/24 at 2:29 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
GOP_Tiger
You need a long break.
Posted on 2/17/24 at 2:38 pm to SirWinston
I have another question for you to ignore.
The deep state didn’t just pop into existence. It had to be developed and this took time. Presumably, it happened during a period of American history that held strong “traditional values” as you claim to support and assert the deep state is trying to erode.
Why would the deep state attempt to destroy traditional values when the deep state came to power in an era of those values? If those values didn’t stop the deep state then, what could going back to them do now? Shouldn’t the deep state want to maintain the status quo wherein it was able to seize control?
The deep state didn’t just pop into existence. It had to be developed and this took time. Presumably, it happened during a period of American history that held strong “traditional values” as you claim to support and assert the deep state is trying to erode.
Why would the deep state attempt to destroy traditional values when the deep state came to power in an era of those values? If those values didn’t stop the deep state then, what could going back to them do now? Shouldn’t the deep state want to maintain the status quo wherein it was able to seize control?
Posted on 2/17/24 at 3:09 pm to Hateradedrink
Honestly, my understanding of the deep state is that it's much more than you describe. Its supposedly a number of families that have been around for many many years. Think hundreds, and in some cases thousands. These are the people who control the world. The Forbes list of wealthiest people in the world does not come close, and they are never mentioned. I'm personally on the fence, but I've read into it extensively
Sorry for getting off topic
Sorry for getting off topic
This post was edited on 2/17/24 at 3:10 pm
Posted on 2/17/24 at 3:12 pm to Hateradedrink
I am happy to answer this one if you retract your unfair statement that I "ignored" your last question.
Posted on 2/17/24 at 3:54 pm to ticklechain
The deep state is the enormous bureaucracy mostly created for social program spending. It consists of mostly of professional memo writers. The deep state can pencil phuck anyone in a heartbeat
If ruling families then the Build a Burgers are gonna get you at their annual get together where they lament the loss of the days of European colonies bringing in wealth from places like the Congo and Sumatra. The Rothschilds are down to almost nothing. They lost the biggest portion of their wealth in WWII during Germany's takeover of Austria and France.
If ruling families then the Build a Burgers are gonna get you at their annual get together where they lament the loss of the days of European colonies bringing in wealth from places like the Congo and Sumatra. The Rothschilds are down to almost nothing. They lost the biggest portion of their wealth in WWII during Germany's takeover of Austria and France.
Posted on 2/17/24 at 4:43 pm to Hateradedrink
quote:
The deep state didn’t just pop into existence.
There is no secret “deep state” that exists separate from the actual government. It’s a fantasy.
Posted on 2/17/24 at 4:47 pm to TBoy
quote:
There is no secret “deep state” that exists separate from the actual government. It’s a fantasy.
Every failed person needs an imaginary boogeyman to blame his situation on.
For people of color, it's systemic racism. For white males, it's the Deep State.
Posted on 2/17/24 at 7:45 pm to No Colors
ISW Update
quote:
Key Takeaways:
Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu claimed that Russian forces have established “full control” over Avdiivka, Donetsk Oblast as Russian forces continued to advance in the settlement on February 17, and Ukrainian forces have likely withdrawn from Avdiivka.
Russian sources largely characterized the Ukrainian withdrawal as disorganized and costly and claimed that Russian forces managed to encircle large Ukrainian groups in Avdiivka, but ISW has observed no evidence supporting these Russian claims.
Russian forces appear to have temporarily established limited and localized air superiority and were able to provide ground troops with close air support during the final days of their offensive operation to capture Avdiivka, likely the first time that Russian forces have done so in Ukraine.
Delays in Western security assistance may lead to further significant constraints on Ukrainian air defenses that could allow Russian forces to replicate the close air support that facilitated Russian advances in Avdiivka at scale in Ukraine.
Ukrainian forces reportedly shot down three Russian fighter aircraft—two Su-34s and one Su-35—over Donetsk Oblast on February 17, likely having committed scarce air defense assets to help cover the withdrawal of Ukrainian forces from Avdiivka.
Russian authorities arrested several hundred demonstrators on February 17 amid slightly larger demonstrations responding to imprisoned opposition politician Alexei Navalny’s death.
The US Department of Justice (DoJ) announced on February 17 that the US sent $500,000 of forfeited Russian funds to Estonia to repair Ukraine’s energy infrastructure
Russian forces made confirmed advances near Bakhmut and Avdiivka and in western Zaporizhia Oblast
Russian occupation authorities continue efforts to propagandize and militarize Ukrainian youth in occupied areas.
Posted on 2/17/24 at 8:09 pm to StormyMcMan
You guys are such femmes. You support this as well as Blinkens concerns about "misgendendering" Palestinians.
I can't wait to rub Trump's victory in your faces.
I can't wait to rub Trump's victory in your faces.
This post was edited on 2/17/24 at 8:11 pm
Posted on 2/17/24 at 8:11 pm to SirWinston
How much money does Biden expect the taxpayers to fund Bidens war
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