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Started By
Message
re: Head Coaching Hire Timeline
Posted on 12/2/21 at 10:24 am to TigerintheNO
Posted on 12/2/21 at 10:24 am to TigerintheNO
I don’t think Kelly’s saying the deal was hammered out in 45 min. I think in that 45 min call Kelly heard Woody’s sales pitch & vision, then Kelly expressed his desires, philosophy, etc. After the call, Kelly was open to leaving for LSU and his agent took over negotiations with Tiger staff. Between that 45 min call and signing his contract, I’m sure there was much agent work and lawyering going on.
1
Posted on 12/2/21 at 10:27 am to TigerGA
Here's why that doesn't make sense.
IF this was hammered out by the agent AFTER Sunday's announcement that LR had been hired by USC...which is what you are suggesting....There's NO WAY the same agent lets LSU hire Kelly for 30% LESS than the latest deal.
Agents re-set the market, then tell institutions that the "price has just gone up, the market has been reset."
That didn't happen here. Remember we hired the coach with the most wins in college football (2nd in winning percentage) for "MEL TUCKER MONEY?"
Nope, this deal was done before Lincoln Riley's.
IMHO...(edited to add this)
IF this was hammered out by the agent AFTER Sunday's announcement that LR had been hired by USC...which is what you are suggesting....There's NO WAY the same agent lets LSU hire Kelly for 30% LESS than the latest deal.
Agents re-set the market, then tell institutions that the "price has just gone up, the market has been reset."
That didn't happen here. Remember we hired the coach with the most wins in college football (2nd in winning percentage) for "MEL TUCKER MONEY?"
Nope, this deal was done before Lincoln Riley's.
IMHO...(edited to add this)
This post was edited on 12/2/21 at 10:30 am
Posted on 12/2/21 at 10:31 am to IowaCityTigerFan
No boosters knew. All of this post is practically false.
This post was edited on 12/2/21 at 10:33 am
Posted on 12/2/21 at 10:32 am to BallChamp00
Tuesday before Thanksgiving is presumable when the deal was done. Without any leaks.
Posted on 12/2/21 at 10:36 am to IowaCityTigerFan
Go listen to Kelly's interview with dan Patrick when he asked about timeline.
It was OBVIOUS this was in the works prior to last weekend.
Kelly CANT say he's had this agreement with Woody prior to his last game with ND. He just can't say it.
The coaching search showed us the boosters knew nothing about this process. Stop asking people who were obviously part of the chess match. They were pawns just like our resident insiders were.
P.s. the contract details tell you immediately this was agreed upon before Mel Tucker got his extension. He's not taking Mel Tucker money when Lincoln Riley ( whom he shares an agent with, who would know up front) is getting $12m a year.
P.s. #2 why would the lsu plane be in South bend on 10/27? Can you think of any logical reason for that? Besides the obvious
It makes no sense
It was OBVIOUS this was in the works prior to last weekend.
Kelly CANT say he's had this agreement with Woody prior to his last game with ND. He just can't say it.
The coaching search showed us the boosters knew nothing about this process. Stop asking people who were obviously part of the chess match. They were pawns just like our resident insiders were.
P.s. the contract details tell you immediately this was agreed upon before Mel Tucker got his extension. He's not taking Mel Tucker money when Lincoln Riley ( whom he shares an agent with, who would know up front) is getting $12m a year.
P.s. #2 why would the lsu plane be in South bend on 10/27? Can you think of any logical reason for that? Besides the obvious
It makes no sense
This post was edited on 12/2/21 at 10:41 am
Posted on 12/2/21 at 11:01 am to SportTiger1
PS#3....Walker Howard only took 1 other recent official visit...where was it, and when was it?
I'm sure that was just a massive coincidence.
I'm sure that was just a massive coincidence.
Posted on 12/2/21 at 11:54 am to BallChamp00
quote:
BallChamp00
quote:
Tuesday before Thanksgiving is presumable when the deal was done. Without any leaks.
You want to reply to that “deal was officially signed last night” comment you posted and deleted, now?
You posted that Sunday.
If no boosters knew, how did you know?
Were you just trolling the board? Because you never mentioned Kelly the entire process.
quote:
No boosters knew. All of this post is practically false.
This post was edited on 12/2/21 at 11:55 am
Posted on 12/2/21 at 11:55 am to IowaCityTigerFan
I guarantee Woodward was considering dozens of coaches.
I can guarantee that through agent contacts, he knew that both LR and BK were get able. He also knew that his only real compilation was USC. He knew either was a superior hire. ND’s AD said he knew BK had the desire to leave during the season. Anyone want to bet this started at O’s early dismissal?
Bet both ADs were courting and negotiating with agents of both coaches simultaneously.
It’s been reported that BK declined USC first. This makes sense since with his age he’s got a better chance to win Nattys at LSU more quickly than USC. Order of each program winning a Natty quickly, LSU, ND, USC. Staying at ND was more attractive to him than rebuilding USC. Good football bounces, in slightly unrealistic numbers, COULD result in his first Natty at ND this year.
This naturally would put pressure on USC’s pursuit of LR since he was there last home run candidate. Their AD would have to outbid Woodward! He did! Now who was Woodward’s first choice? We will probably never know.
Bet Woodward also knew ULL was losing their coach before ULL did. According to rumors, he never considered this. This tells us he had a number 3 he ranked higher than Florida’s choice. Now there’s something to speculate about, and a legitimate concern for other ADs. Looking at you Cincinnati!
I can guarantee that through agent contacts, he knew that both LR and BK were get able. He also knew that his only real compilation was USC. He knew either was a superior hire. ND’s AD said he knew BK had the desire to leave during the season. Anyone want to bet this started at O’s early dismissal?
Bet both ADs were courting and negotiating with agents of both coaches simultaneously.
It’s been reported that BK declined USC first. This makes sense since with his age he’s got a better chance to win Nattys at LSU more quickly than USC. Order of each program winning a Natty quickly, LSU, ND, USC. Staying at ND was more attractive to him than rebuilding USC. Good football bounces, in slightly unrealistic numbers, COULD result in his first Natty at ND this year.
This naturally would put pressure on USC’s pursuit of LR since he was there last home run candidate. Their AD would have to outbid Woodward! He did! Now who was Woodward’s first choice? We will probably never know.
Bet Woodward also knew ULL was losing their coach before ULL did. According to rumors, he never considered this. This tells us he had a number 3 he ranked higher than Florida’s choice. Now there’s something to speculate about, and a legitimate concern for other ADs. Looking at you Cincinnati!
Posted on 12/2/21 at 12:06 pm to Chicken
quote:
there's no doubt that USC and LSU were talking to their candidates well before they were hired
and it was probably mainly through their agents...that way a coach can say I did not have any contact with LSU etc
Posted on 12/2/21 at 12:08 pm to IowaCityTigerFan
As with LR to USC, discussions with agents went on for some time before direct discussion w/ candidate.
Posted on 12/2/21 at 1:27 pm to Chicken
quote:
he has to say this to save face… Lincoln Riley made a similar BS comment.
there's no doubt that USC and LSU were talking to their candidates well before they were hired
I think it is the basic plausible deniability scenario with all these guys. The initial conversations are going on through proxy. In this case, if what was reported is true, they have the same agent so probably a 1 person go between. Just my thinking.
So the "I only spoke LSU this weekend" is technically true. But he spoke to his agent who was speaking the LSU for weeks.
Posted on 12/2/21 at 1:40 pm to IowaCityTigerFan
quote:
Looking at the evidence, I think it was Sunday. I really do believe Woodward had something in place for LR. I made a phone call last week to a very large booster whom I met when I worked for Jindal. He said “Lincoln Riley.” The reporter I trust the most said “Lincoln Riley.”
What "evidence" leads to this conclusion?
Here is my evidence that contradicts your conclusion:
1. No official scholarship offers are extended by LSU from the date Orgeron is fired until the days leading up to Thanksgiving.
2. Who green-lighted the extension of said offers? Orgeron did not have the authority to do so at that point in time. The assistant coaches do not have that authority. Which leaves Woodward and his staff. Do you think a head coach is willing to walk into a situation in which someone else is dictating his roster choices?
3. Many hours of due diligence go into the decision to extend offers. Future roster needs, current commit list etc. etc. etc. So someone with intimate knowledge of the current roster and player development, current commit list and future roster needs made the decision to extend said referenced offers.
4. The two offers that were extended were to Martell Harris (LB aTm commit) who also had offers from Baylor, OU and ND and a LB from the mid-west who was a Michigan commit.
When I saw offers were being extended again I knew that we had a new head coach. This was prior to Thanksgiving, Bedlam and the supposed "Riley fiasco".
quote:
Yesterday Chicken posted something along the lines that said “if this was in place long ago, then coaching hires should be done quickly.”
With all due respect to our fearless leader, IMO he could not be more wrong. This is not the usual firing situation, rarely is a HC fired for a team that is bowl eligible. The following is a cut and paste of a post I made in the Elston staying at ND thread:
People who think that the new staff will be announced shortly are off the mark and will be subject to much anxiety and teeth gnashing.
1. LSU has a full compliment of coaches (11) under contract. The 10 assistants will be recruiting for LSU for ESD and preparing the team for any bowl game. Do not expect any changes to be made to the coaching staff until after the bowl season.
2. Typically, assistant coach hiring season begins after the majority of the bowl games have been played until after the second NSD. With most of the activity from early January thru the beginning of the January contact period.
3. The vast majority of Assistant coaches that have bowl prep coming in December for their current employer will not be making moves or desire for the info of them leaving to leak until after the bowl game has been played.
Patience Tiger fans, patience.
quote:
Meanwhile, BK missed out on all his staff here at LSU.
Has he really?
He may not be getting the newly hired HC of ND or the ND OC, but see #3 above. When all is said and done, it would not surprise me if several current ND assistant are named to Kelly's LSU staff.
quote:
Circumstance does play a role in this, as ND does have a shot in the CFP.
100% agree.
Posted on 12/2/21 at 1:43 pm to IowaCityTigerFan
Agents speak to schools on behalf of their clients exclusively basically until the decision is a formality, assuming the coach has a job at the time. Sometimes it doesn't work out during that meeting, but if anyone thinks Kelly was not a target until right before he met with LSU, they simply don't understand how any of this works.
Posted on 12/2/21 at 1:44 pm to Chicken
I don’t BK was last minute and I don’t think Riley was ever a serious candidate, but I can guarantee you he went all in on Jimbo 3 times and got denied every time before he moved on. Jimbo was #1, $12M/yr guy.
Cant have Kelly as #1 and give him $9.5M when the #1 guy was gonna get offered $12M!
Cant have Kelly as #1 and give him $9.5M when the #1 guy was gonna get offered $12M!
Posted on 12/2/21 at 2:28 pm to IowaCityTigerFan
My $0.02
Sept 13 - USC Fired Helton
Oct 13-15?? - LSU Fired O
-USC had at least a 2 week head start on LSU. SW may have laid a bit of groundwork before that but I think USC def had a head start.
-USC was talking to Riley before LSU. If they hadn't talked to him before CEO was fired, I guarantee you they did when he was fired and pushed it hard.
-I bet SW talked with Riley or at least the agent mid to late Oct.
-Then Nov 15-16 time frame we started getting word from those in the know at LSU that it was Riley. Thru the end of that week it was Riley going to LSU. The LSU people in the know thought they had good information, the panic and smoke coming out of Oklahoma 'proved" it.
-Then the smoke stopped, the buzz stopped leading up to thanksgiving. You hear a blurb about maybe LSU gets Riley on the TV here and there but all speculation. It got really quiet....when it should've getting louder everywhere.
-But this was all part of the screen set by SW and Riley/Kelly's agency.
-Its been said a lot that the smoke in Oklahoma was orchestrated and SW never had Riley and it was smoke to cover for Riley/LSU/Kelly. It was masterful.....I believe it too knowing how secretive his other 2 hires were at LSU.
So there is no way in the world Kelly was a deal whipped up after Riley made his USC decision. I really believe both guys were locked down well before last weekend.
I think USC had Riley the weekend before thanksgiving when the smoke signals in OU were coming out. Or at least long enough to have given the coaches he wanted to bring with him a heads up and to see if they wanted to come. Otherwise how do you explain those guys packing up the same day that Riley was. They knew for a week or 2 already.
Sept 13 - USC Fired Helton
Oct 13-15?? - LSU Fired O
-USC had at least a 2 week head start on LSU. SW may have laid a bit of groundwork before that but I think USC def had a head start.
-USC was talking to Riley before LSU. If they hadn't talked to him before CEO was fired, I guarantee you they did when he was fired and pushed it hard.
-I bet SW talked with Riley or at least the agent mid to late Oct.
-Then Nov 15-16 time frame we started getting word from those in the know at LSU that it was Riley. Thru the end of that week it was Riley going to LSU. The LSU people in the know thought they had good information, the panic and smoke coming out of Oklahoma 'proved" it.
-Then the smoke stopped, the buzz stopped leading up to thanksgiving. You hear a blurb about maybe LSU gets Riley on the TV here and there but all speculation. It got really quiet....when it should've getting louder everywhere.
-But this was all part of the screen set by SW and Riley/Kelly's agency.
-Its been said a lot that the smoke in Oklahoma was orchestrated and SW never had Riley and it was smoke to cover for Riley/LSU/Kelly. It was masterful.....I believe it too knowing how secretive his other 2 hires were at LSU.
So there is no way in the world Kelly was a deal whipped up after Riley made his USC decision. I really believe both guys were locked down well before last weekend.
I think USC had Riley the weekend before thanksgiving when the smoke signals in OU were coming out. Or at least long enough to have given the coaches he wanted to bring with him a heads up and to see if they wanted to come. Otherwise how do you explain those guys packing up the same day that Riley was. They knew for a week or 2 already.
Posted on 12/2/21 at 2:39 pm to IowaCityTigerFan
I believe things between LSU and Lincoln Riley never got further than Woodward's initial question to Riley's agent, at which time Riley was already locked up with USC. IF that even happened. But that's as far as it got.
For those who think LSU made a strong push for Riley or anyone who even might think we almost had Riley.... well, if you believe that, then you also must believe the rumored contract of 8yrs and 96M. There's no logical reason to believe one but not the other,
Now ask yourself in what universe is Lincoln Riley worth more than B Kelly.
In my opinion, there's the answer, LSU never had a shot at Lincoln Riley and we can only speculate if Woodward ever wanted him in the first place. I think Kelly was the guy all along and the Riley to LSU rumors were put out by the coaches agent to distract.
For those who think LSU made a strong push for Riley or anyone who even might think we almost had Riley.... well, if you believe that, then you also must believe the rumored contract of 8yrs and 96M. There's no logical reason to believe one but not the other,
Now ask yourself in what universe is Lincoln Riley worth more than B Kelly.
In my opinion, there's the answer, LSU never had a shot at Lincoln Riley and we can only speculate if Woodward ever wanted him in the first place. I think Kelly was the guy all along and the Riley to LSU rumors were put out by the coaches agent to distract.
Posted on 12/2/21 at 5:43 pm to IowaCityTigerFan
What I’m saying is it took longer than 45 or 2 days to decide. Which means the job was offered to him before Lincoln Riley announced he was leaving going to usc.
Posted on 12/3/21 at 12:05 am to LafTiger
Lots of great opinion here, as well as from others later in chain. IMO, a plausible scenario:
- SC inquires first, BK declines interest for the above mentioned reasons, although he is looking for a new opportunity to break through the ‘ship ceiling he had at ND.
- not long after, SW inquires about LR and BK (TArmstrong reps both) and is informed that LR has no desire to coach in the SEC; however, Armstrong tells SW that Kelly is looking for a new challenge with a stronger path to a title. They hammer out details over the next several weeks, w/o Kelly speaking to SW directly. They arrive at the MOU and NDA referenced above and it’s done in principle.
- meanwhile, Armstrong quickly presents LR to USC and begins same process with them. Given that LR is younger and does not have the same ‘ship urgency as BK, he commands a bigger deal to lure him and his young family from OU. They hammer out similar pattern of agreements as above. As mentioned above, BK’s deal is already sealed and unable to be adjusted, and the NDA prevents him from going to ND for counteroffer, although this wasn’t just a raise opportunity for BK.
- given the desires to keep these secret, all parties agree to allow the smokescreens to continue for mutual benefit.
- SW can’t/won’t meet with BK before regular season ended, therefore he needed “45min” on Sunday to discuss final details and assure BK that he wanted to work for SW and Tate and that he would have full support and resource backing at LSU.
- part of the agreement with BK was full secrecy (NDA) therefore, he could not discuss with his assts and inquire about coming to LSU with him prior to.
Pretty damn impressive that SW, Bohn, and especially TArmstrong could orchestrate such moves with such ninja stealth secrecy.
PS - I do not believe it is a coincidence at all that Walker Howard made an OV to ND for SC game, traveling in the Acadian “LSU” jet. That was to meet and greet his new HC ??
- SC inquires first, BK declines interest for the above mentioned reasons, although he is looking for a new opportunity to break through the ‘ship ceiling he had at ND.
- not long after, SW inquires about LR and BK (TArmstrong reps both) and is informed that LR has no desire to coach in the SEC; however, Armstrong tells SW that Kelly is looking for a new challenge with a stronger path to a title. They hammer out details over the next several weeks, w/o Kelly speaking to SW directly. They arrive at the MOU and NDA referenced above and it’s done in principle.
- meanwhile, Armstrong quickly presents LR to USC and begins same process with them. Given that LR is younger and does not have the same ‘ship urgency as BK, he commands a bigger deal to lure him and his young family from OU. They hammer out similar pattern of agreements as above. As mentioned above, BK’s deal is already sealed and unable to be adjusted, and the NDA prevents him from going to ND for counteroffer, although this wasn’t just a raise opportunity for BK.
- given the desires to keep these secret, all parties agree to allow the smokescreens to continue for mutual benefit.
- SW can’t/won’t meet with BK before regular season ended, therefore he needed “45min” on Sunday to discuss final details and assure BK that he wanted to work for SW and Tate and that he would have full support and resource backing at LSU.
- part of the agreement with BK was full secrecy (NDA) therefore, he could not discuss with his assts and inquire about coming to LSU with him prior to.
Pretty damn impressive that SW, Bohn, and especially TArmstrong could orchestrate such moves with such ninja stealth secrecy.
PS - I do not believe it is a coincidence at all that Walker Howard made an OV to ND for SC game, traveling in the Acadian “LSU” jet. That was to meet and greet his new HC ??
Posted on 12/3/21 at 4:52 am to Tiger2tiger97
It took 45 minutes to be convinced it was the right deal maybe
quote:
…It took 45 minutes to decide
Posted on 12/3/21 at 4:57 am to lsufb1912
quote:
He was technically deferring that question to Woodward & I don't think the press ever readdressed those questions to Woodward.
Woodward has nothing of substance to say ever. Doesn’t want to reveal his methods.
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