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Posted on 5/18/25 at 8:36 am to Zach
First of all everyone on this thread should watch the Ken burns documentary on Vietnam. It’s 8 or so episodes and absolutely fantastic.
In 2025 it’s hard for us to think about communism as an immediate threat that requires drafting our young men to fight. But back in the early 60s it seemed like an existential threat to the USA and our allies. We have the luxury today of knowing that the USSR fell and every place communism has been tried it has either completely failed or gradually had to evolve into a market economy. In the time of Vietnam war, most of the country thought we had to stop it and Vietnam was the place to do it.
In 2025 it’s hard for us to think about communism as an immediate threat that requires drafting our young men to fight. But back in the early 60s it seemed like an existential threat to the USA and our allies. We have the luxury today of knowing that the USSR fell and every place communism has been tried it has either completely failed or gradually had to evolve into a market economy. In the time of Vietnam war, most of the country thought we had to stop it and Vietnam was the place to do it.
Posted on 5/18/25 at 8:38 am to Padme
quote:
Same reason many people injected poison into their arms when told to
Name one.
Posted on 5/18/25 at 8:41 am to Penrod
[quote]Understood in this context, the Vietnam War was part of a much longer, much bigger Cold War that was won by the United States.[/q
I've heard Newt Gingrich say this a few times and is probably correct.
But, unless you were in school in the 60's and early 70's and draft age it's hard to understand all of the things that were happening in society.
Yes, you had massive student lead protests against the war. Young men burning draft cards and either going underground or running to Canada. A lot
of stories about soldiers fragging their officers in Vietnam.
I got out of high school in1971 and my parents could afford to send me to college. my classmates not so fortunate got drafted and the majority were sent to Vietnam. Just nothing at all fair about selective service.
Nobody I went to school with was killed. One guy was wounded and a few others started having illnesses related to their service from tropical diseases to Agent Orange . Several, have told me the draft dodgers were the smart ones and they wished they'd never served.
On balance, nearly 60K Americans killed I really doubt if it was worth the lives and resources spent to prop up one corrupt regieme after another.
I've heard Newt Gingrich say this a few times and is probably correct.
But, unless you were in school in the 60's and early 70's and draft age it's hard to understand all of the things that were happening in society.
Yes, you had massive student lead protests against the war. Young men burning draft cards and either going underground or running to Canada. A lot
of stories about soldiers fragging their officers in Vietnam.
I got out of high school in1971 and my parents could afford to send me to college. my classmates not so fortunate got drafted and the majority were sent to Vietnam. Just nothing at all fair about selective service.
Nobody I went to school with was killed. One guy was wounded and a few others started having illnesses related to their service from tropical diseases to Agent Orange . Several, have told me the draft dodgers were the smart ones and they wished they'd never served.
On balance, nearly 60K Americans killed I really doubt if it was worth the lives and resources spent to prop up one corrupt regieme after another.
Posted on 5/18/25 at 8:43 am to Dex Morgan
Political all the way...the media minus Cronkite...no social or cable opinions...I was Lottery # 59
Posted on 5/18/25 at 8:49 am to Dex Morgan
Why do we allow Muslims to build their own cities or run for public office? Why do we allow 20 million illegals into our country? Why do we allow bankruping wars we always get the short end?
Just think we allowed this with the 2nd amendment and hundreds of millions of guns and no one did a damn thing.
Its hard to ponder sometimes this takes place dispite how well we are armed.
Just think we allowed this with the 2nd amendment and hundreds of millions of guns and no one did a damn thing.
Its hard to ponder sometimes this takes place dispite how well we are armed.
Posted on 5/18/25 at 8:49 am to Dex Morgan
Who the frick thinks war is noble?
Posted on 5/18/25 at 8:53 am to Brosef Stalin
All those anti-war protests magically ended when we stopped the draft.
Coincidence?
Coincidence?
Posted on 5/18/25 at 8:57 am to texas tortilla
quote:
back in the sixties there were alot of tv shows about ww2. combat, rat patrol, mchales navy, hogans heros, and others. of course we were superior in every episode and always outsmarted the enemy. the old john wayne movie The Green Berets was a good movie about how bad they were and how just our mission was. were we brainwashed?
hogan's hero's is on freevee it was on amazon my wife and i watch it before drifting off to bed great series 6 season's i always wondered how it would have ended until i watched "masters of the air" on apple TV this was the third installment of "band of brothers". after "D day" klink was gone.control of the prison camps were transferred from the luftwaffe to the SS and schultz was transferred to the russian front. between january and april of 1945 80,000 mostly american POW's were forced marched in an elaborate cat and mouse game to various temporary camps at night between germany. poland and czechoslovakia. they got strafed by american aircraft. the prisoners assumed they'd be executed. in blizzard conditions and thousand's died during the marches.
what amazes me is that as someone born 16 years after the end of WW2 that i had never seen that depicted in any movie, not stalag 17, the dirty dozen, kelly's hero's, hogan's hero's,rat patrol, combat!, saving private ryan until 2024 "masters of the air"
Posted on 5/18/25 at 9:16 am to Dex Morgan
Why? Because male college students were given a deferment. They let them slide out of their obligation. Send those college men and see how fast that war ends. Send Dick Cheney’s fat arse into a Vietnam rice patty and see what happens. Rich man’s war and poor man’s fight.
This post was edited on 5/18/25 at 9:19 am
Posted on 5/18/25 at 9:25 am to Dex Morgan
At first it was backed, but when people saw it on TV that changed everything. You have to realize that the idea of being Nuked by the USSR was a real fear back then too.
Posted on 5/18/25 at 9:26 am to Dex Morgan
quote:
Why did Americans put up with the Vietnam War?
Did they? It was one of the most protested events in our nations history and one of the first times parts of the media went against the government in its reporting.
Posted on 5/18/25 at 9:30 am to Dex Morgan
quote:
people in the US let LBJ murder their sons for it.
Uh, it was JFK's war. LBJ trusted idiots like Robert McNamara, a Kennedy appointee, to micromanage and try to run the Pentagon like the Rand Corporation.
Posted on 5/18/25 at 9:35 am to BhamTigah
Eisenhower warned back in the 50s about the futility of getting into a land war in Indo China. The jungle is not your friend.
Early on, LBJ said the troops would be home by Christmas. I was an army clerk in Chu Lai 67-68 and even I was touched-up by shrapnel from a rocket attack. It got me a Civil Service job with
DOD and 10% disability. Corrected vision kept me out of the infantry.
Early on, LBJ said the troops would be home by Christmas. I was an army clerk in Chu Lai 67-68 and even I was touched-up by shrapnel from a rocket attack. It got me a Civil Service job with
DOD and 10% disability. Corrected vision kept me out of the infantry.
Posted on 5/18/25 at 9:40 am to hansenthered1
quote:
Who the frick thinks war is noble?
It isn't, but defending your country and interests are. The question becomes
'is it in our best interest to get involved in a foreign war, and if so, to what extent?" Then, do we send weapons or even troops? It should be the most gut wrenching decision a president has to make, to send Americans into battle.
Posted on 5/18/25 at 9:46 am to bird35
Posted on 5/18/25 at 9:59 am to West Seattle Dude
quote:
Eisenhower warned back in the 50s about the futility of getting into a land war in Indo China. The jungle is not your friend.
If you look at the geopolitical situation in Asia at the time, it's easy to see why the knee jerk reaction of the US Government. Vietnam had split, Laos had spun into the Maoist orbit. Malaysia was in a civil war with Communist Insurgents, the Indonesian Dictator Sokarno was playing both sides of the fence, and the US feared losing AlliesThailand and the Philippines. The British and Australians brutally put down the Malay insurgency, something the South Vietnamese wanted the US to do, brute force, but the political football had deflated in the US by then.
Posted on 5/18/25 at 10:08 am to Dex Morgan
Because even those of us who hated LBJ (me being the number one exemplar of that opinion) just could not believe it POSSIBLE that our revered government would actually LIE to the US population and put us into a useless WAR that would consume the lives of tens of thousands of our youth.
I have hated LBJ from my childhood back in the late '40s - and even *I* refused to believe that even THAT bastard would take the nation into a WAR based on a damned LIE that HE initiated.
It was beyond my understanding of how EVIL the human mind could be if they were in such a position of power over so many. I thought that level of evil could only take hold in some otherwise incompetent individual whose impact was limited to his own physical reach.
BUT - LBJ has put himself in the same league as Hitler in my view - and has lowered the bar substantially for others to try to emulate his actions. LBJ's evil has infected the ENTIRE DEMOCRAT PARTY to such an extent that it is hard to find one NOT affected by it.
The whole party has acted as a full blown evil CULT for the past 20 years at least. And Obama can take the onus for pumping that acceleration of domestic political evil.
I have hated LBJ from my childhood back in the late '40s - and even *I* refused to believe that even THAT bastard would take the nation into a WAR based on a damned LIE that HE initiated.
It was beyond my understanding of how EVIL the human mind could be if they were in such a position of power over so many. I thought that level of evil could only take hold in some otherwise incompetent individual whose impact was limited to his own physical reach.
BUT - LBJ has put himself in the same league as Hitler in my view - and has lowered the bar substantially for others to try to emulate his actions. LBJ's evil has infected the ENTIRE DEMOCRAT PARTY to such an extent that it is hard to find one NOT affected by it.
The whole party has acted as a full blown evil CULT for the past 20 years at least. And Obama can take the onus for pumping that acceleration of domestic political evil.
Posted on 5/18/25 at 10:09 am to Dex Morgan
quote:
Was the propaganda on another level back then?
It's not difficult to persuade any group of people with average propaganda.
We have seen examples of this many times in all of the ages of history.
Posted on 5/18/25 at 10:13 am to OchoDedos
quote:
Uh, it was JFK's war. LBJ trusted idiots like Robert McNamara, a Kennedy appointee, to micromanage and try to run the Pentagon like the Rand Corporation.
this is bullshite - I am not vouching for JFKs purity - only that LBJ was the PRIME MOVER in getting us involved in Vietnam.
JFK had been long murdered (by lbj) and the ball was in LBJ's court. He WANTED a 'war' to enhance his election chances. He longed to be a "wartime POTUS",.
Damn his soul - may God have mercy that I am incapable of conceiving.
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