re: Why are we surprised that America is becoming more liberal?

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No. The US govt in the 18th century was saying to the pubic: 'Take care of your own damn self. It's not the job of govt to take care of you.' That's conservative, not liberal at all.

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that was a liberal position in the 1800s. it still is, in the true meaning of what "liberalism" is.

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Developed societies pretty much have always become more liberal in the history of humanity.

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I would argue that the words "liberal" and "conservative" have only been relevant since the industrial revolution. If that's what you mean by "the history of humanity" then yea, I guess I agree with you.

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Take your example of slavery. You don't think there were plenty of conservatives (for the time) who argued exactly, "This is a whole new level of “changing things.”?

Or women voting.

Or supporting industrialization.

Or supporting globalized integration and trade.

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Yes, I do think there were conservatives who thought that. But even at the time, they were resisting something that had been going on for a few hundred years. Now “they” are resisting something that’s been a human biological reality for 200 thousand years. There is a huge difference. What you’re talking about is more akin to letting gay people get married. Telling kids they can change their gender goes against shite that has been scientific reality for all of human existence. Not to mention, they’re kids.

There is no comparison.

Rome was kicking butt and taking names then the progressive liberal ideas happened. Rome crumbled like a like a 3 day old cracker that a mouse snatched off a kitchen table. The US is laying on the table and the mouse is lurking. Soon we will go down in the history like the Roman Empire did unfortunately. When you want to destroy a empire just adopt liberal/progressive philosophy and boom destruction is eminent.

And I’m not disputing that societies become more “liberal” over time. Of course they do. But the examples you made in your previous post didn’t change the fabric of society. It just changed how we do things. A lot of shite today is based on phony narratives.

Another example of a bad idea that was pushed by the left was the anti-body shaming movement “love yourself” and they started showing all those videos of morbidly obese people. I suspect we’ll abandon that idea because obesity is severely unhealthy. It’s already getting phased out.

Back to your point about conservatives historically sometimes being against change. Even back in the 50s talking about desegregation, I can imagine people in the middle might have been thinking, “alright this will be weird, I don’t know if I like it” and conservatives may likely have been 100% against it, but most realistic people knew eventually whites and blacks would have the same access to everything. Same as most realistic people today know that abortion is eventually going to be illegal and unopposed by both sides. Pro-life will be seen as an extreme viewpoint eventually.

What’s the “end game” for the gender shite though? What’s the goal? One day it will be perfectly normal to go against 200,000 years of human existence and let all kids choose their gender?

I see the comparison you’re making here, I just don’t think it applies to certain aspects.

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What’s the “end game” for the gender shite though?

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this exact question is precisely why i'm a conservative. there is no "end game" for ANY progressive policy. and there's no real catching feature other than progressives being removed from power, be it by vote or by violence.

I honestly believe that while a large number of individuals believe in liberal ideology, there is also a large number of individuals who default to liberal ideology just to avoid being associated with conservatism (or at least how conservatism is defined by a biased media/social media).

We see it all the time when discussing politics. People are so afraid to be associated with one side of the aisle or the other, that they just staunchly entrench in political beliefs that they may not even fully believe or understand.

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There is nothing organic about this movement, its forced.

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I think The point the OP was making is that the general trend isn’t organic either.

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this exact question is precisely why i'm a conservative. there is no "end game" for ANY progressive policy. and there's no real catching feature other than progressives being removed from power, be it by vote or by violence.

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I think you’re basically saying that they’ll keep wanting change no matter what regardless of how dumb it is, which is true. What I meant by end game was the goal, the “goal” of, say, desegregation was that blacks and whites would eventually be equal and have access to the same shite. It was a good and common sense goal.

When it becomes whack is when the “end goal” just makes no sense and isn’t sustainable (usually science / evidence based). I used the “love your body no matter what” movement as an example in my response to SFP. All the fake love that obese people are shown when they pose in their underwear, the end goal of that would be, everyone’s beautiful… but obesity literally kills people and causes all kinds of health problems which is why that “movement” will go down as a joke eventually, it can’t sustain itself. Objectively speaking no one finds obesity inherently attractive. We are programmed to not be attracted to that and you can’t change biology.

I think a lot of people assume that since society changes over time, usually “more liberal”, they assume all change must be good change. That’s my problem with the woke left. Sometimes the change is great and needed, but it just seems like the woke left invents shite that makes no sense. They got locked up and made a list of stupid shite they wanted to change.